D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

Just a thought, but given they are still legal & from a PHB, but not in the 2024 PHB, should they s

  • Yes

    Votes: 102 48.6%
  • No

    Votes: 81 38.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 14 6.7%
  • Other explained in comments

    Votes: 13 6.2%

Isn't Elrond "half-elf"? I think Aragorn might be (or is it just "high man") also?
As mentioned earlier in the thread Elrond is a half elf who chose “the life of an elf”. His brother chose “the life of a (hu)man” and was an ancestor of Aragon (who did the typical royal thing and married his cousin).

Tolkien supports the choose one species you identify with mechanically approach.

Side note: if you look closely at Elrond’s family tree, he could also qualify as an aasimar.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Orcs and half-orcs are mechanically redundant. So are elves and half-elves. They aren't distinct enough to warrant two separate species stat blocks.
They aren't redundant.

The 2014 half elf and elf as well as half orc and orc were different races.

The half elf wasn't continued. The half orc and orc were combined into the 2024 orc.

It's like saying a peanut butter sandwich and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich are the same.

Or like when some games combine halfling and gnomes into one race.
 

I agree. All those things should have mechanical representation. My whole game design philosophy practically demands as much mechanical representation as possible. I want different things modeled differently, darn it!
And does this stacking systems on top of one another serve anything but page bloat and rising barrier to entry? I'm of opinion a good system should have few rules, that can be applied to all but most edge cases.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
They aren't redundant.

The 2014 half elf and elf as well as half orc and orc were different races.

The half elf wasn't continued. The half orc and orc were combined into the 2024 orc.

It's like saying a peanut butter sandwich and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich are the same.

Or like when some games combine halfling and gnomes into one race.
To be fair, gnomes are also redundant and should go away if not for D&D's desperate clinging to things for tradition to the point that it's super rare for cruft to be excised.
 

To be fair, gnomes are also redundant and should go away if not for D&D's desperate clinging to things for tradition to the point that it's super rare for cruft to be excised.
I could somewhat see Gnomes and Haflings working if they're being diffirent enough. On Mystara Five Shires is hafling's land that is like Tolkien's Shire, but more militaristic and weirdly libertarian. Meanwhile, Gnomes are flying around in an advanced mechanical city of Serraine, with WWI-level technology/magitech and sharing the city with not-skeksis and not-flying apes from Wizard of Oz, and makign Top Gun jokes.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Oh, now mechanics matter when you don't like them?

Just to point out: you basically agreed with my original post. Orcs and half-orcs are mechanically redundant. So are elves and half-elves. They aren't distinct enough to warrant two separate species stat blocks. And yes, they have an interesting story niche, but that story niche isn't enough to save them when a different system could be used to represent mixed species (such as level ups system, or origin feats, or custom lineages).
I agreed that the mechanics packages as presented to me were redundant. That doesn't mean a better package couldn't be constructed. Level Up's system is IMO an example of just such a package. And the reason I feel a better way to represent orcs and half-orcs (and elves and half-elves, and other species and half-other species) is that the presence of such beings serves much more than a mechanical need.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
And does this stacking systems on top of one another serve anything but page bloat and rising barrier to entry? I'm of opinion a good system should have few rules, that can be applied to all but most edge cases.
I am not of that opinion. A good game IMO should have rules for whatever it wants to model. If you want to model a realistic fantasy world, first of all you state that intention, and secondly you create rules to cover the things you want or need to cover to meet that goal. You don't have to use all those rules in every given campaign at every given table if they aren't needed at the time, but they're there if you want them. If you want to model superheroic power fantasy it's the same; first of all you state that intention, and secondly you create rules to cover the things you want or need to cover to meet that goal. That will sometimes mean that some games have a higher inherent complexity than others. So be it: that is not always a bad thing to be avoided IMO.
 

A good game IMO should have rules for whatever it wants to model
D&D never set out to model anything in particular (apart Conan stories a little in the early days), and thus it could be played lots of different ways. Hence it’s success, whilst more specialised games have fallen by the wayside.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
D&D never set out to model anything in particular (apart Conan stories a little in the early days), and thus it could be played lots of different ways. Hence it’s success, whilst more specialised games have fallen by the wayside.
That statement strongly implies that little to no one plays anything but D&D, or at least that D&D is objectively the best RPG. I hope you're not saying that, or suggesting popularity is a measure of quality.

And earlier editions of D&D used to have more simulation-based subsystems that (sometimes poor execution aside) at least made the attempt to model more that superheroic power fantasy. A good example out of many is gold for XP, which remained a thing through the end of 2e. The DMG used to talk about demographics and had tables and charts to help you create a world, not just lists of magic items, tacked-on optional rules designed strictly for appeasement, and flimsy advice (all my opinion of course). My favorite official DMG remains 1e's. That book is chonky, and still useful today, even if I don't agree with all of it.
 

That statement strongly implies that little to no one plays anything but D&D,
Statistically, this is true. People playing other RPGs are a tiny fraction, and what those competing RPGs are has changed on a regular basis. Whatever happened to Vampire: The Masquerade?
or at least that D&D is objectively the best RPG.
Certainly not true. But you don’t want to be “the best” you want to be the one that the maximum number of people consider good enough to be worth playing.
 
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