D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[mamba]

Which is why we need to stop looking to WotC to make the game we want.

yeah, I have given up on that recently They are not moving in a direction I want and there is no point in waiting for them to do so

Of course then there are dozens of other games to potentially look into, only to find they are also ‘not quite it’ but in a different way, so I cannot really blame people for sticking with D&D

 

[Micah Sweet]

yeah, I have given up on that recently They are not moving in a direction I want and there is no point in waiting for them to do so

Of course then there are dozens of other games to potentially look into, only to find they are also ‘not quite it’ but in a different way, so I cannot really blame people for sticking with D&D

This is why I pick one that's close and modify it.

 

[Remathilis]

no, same name, same flavour, just more of a unique package of mechanics rather than 'discount elf' or 'refluffed human', making a generic 'feyblood' entirely misses the point of why people want halfelves (and halforcs), because people want the narrative, and ideally the mechanics to go with that narrative, of those who are caught between, being both yet neither, and H-elves and H-orcs have long established histories and lore and relationships, what they represent and are is immediately identifiable which a 'generic feyblood' would lack that iconic narrative identifying footprint.

name: the half-terminology has been deemed problematic to some people, implying half-breed stereotypes.

flavor: half-elves are a race that are not accepted by either parents (elves for not being pure, humans for being part other) and exist as outsiders to both. Half-orcs are children of violence feared by humans and tolerated by orcs.

Mechanics: both races get abilities similar to their non-human parents. Both packages are in general weaker than their nhp. They get no unique traits from their human side. Half-elves (without ASI) are weaker than elves and half-orcs are only likewise worse than the current orc. Both would need a new ability to make them unique from elves and orcs respectively.

Niche: half-orcs no longer need to be "PC playable orcs" because we now have PC playable orcs that aren't crippled or lopsided. Half-elves niche of being elves with better class options (AD&D) or bard elves (3e on) aren't relevant since elves can be any class since 2000 and races aren't built to be "the strong one, the quick one, the charismatic one" anymore. The only niche both fill is the mixed heritage one, which should be an option for every race rather than two specific crosses.

Which is the problem: the name is a problem, the flavor is a problem, the mechanics are nothing to write home about, and their niche has evaporated due to how the race rules have changed over the years. I'd rather have someone make a good mixed ancestry option than keep these two relics.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I am not of that opinion. A good game IMO should have rules for whatever it wants to model. If you want to model a realistic fantasy world, first of all you state that intention, and secondly you create rules to cover the things you want or need to cover to meet that goal. You don't have to use all those rules in every given campaign at every given table if they aren't needed at the time, but they're there if you want them. If you want to model superheroic power fantasy it's the same; first of all you state that intention, and secondly you create rules to cover the things you want or need to cover to meet that goal. That will sometimes mean that some games have a higher inherent complexity than others. So be it: that is not always a bad thing to be avoided IMO.

Sounds like getting boggled in unnecessary stuff you will never use and having to force yourself into additional work of selecting what you use for which game, all while the people are intimdiated by the 400+ page rulebook and you rarely ever run the game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sounds like getting boggled in unnecessary stuff you will never use and having to force yourself into additional work of selecting what you use for which game, all while the people are intimdiated by the 400+ page rulebook and you rarely ever run the game.

I'm sure it does sound like that. To you. I expect you and I don't enjoy the hobby for the same reasons.

Have fun with your version!

 

[Not a Decepticon]

name: the half-terminology has been deemed problematic to some people, implying half-breed stereotypes.

flavor: half-elves are a race that are not accepted by either parents (elves for not being pure, humans for being part other) and exist as outsiders to both. Half-orcs are children of violence feared by humans and tolerated by orcs.

Mechanics: both races get abilities similar to their non-human parents. Both packages are in general weaker than their nhp. They get no unique traits from their human side. Half-elves (without ASI) are weaker than elves and half-orcs are only likewise worse than the current orc. Both would need a new ability to make them unique from elves and orcs respectively.

Niche: half-orcs no longer need to be "PC playable orcs" because we now have PC playable orcs that aren't crippled or lopsided. Half-elves niche of being elves with better class options (AD&D) or bard elves (3e on) aren't relevant since elves can be any class since 2000 and races aren't built to be "the strong one, the quick one, the charismatic one" anymore. The only niche both fill is the mixed heritage one, which should be an option for every race rather than two specific crosses.

Which is the problem: the name is a problem, the flavor is a problem, the mechanics are nothing to write home about, and their niche has evaporated due to how the race rules have changed over the years. I'd rather have someone make a good mixed ancestry option than keep these two relics.

Also worth noting: One unique thing Elves have is different subspecies - High, Wood, Sea, Astral Elves, Shadar-Kai, Drow, Eladrin. One interesting thing I feel Half-Elf could do is to reflect these lineages...which is one thing half-Elf was never doing.

I'd rather if the game had mixed herritage for Elves that reflects the many subspecies, same tbh with Giant Bloodlines Goliaths have or Tiefling's subtypes - I'd rather see them as herritages we can slap on other species,.

 

[Minigiant]

flavor: half-elves are a race that are not accepted by either parents (elves for not being pure, humans for being part other) and exist as outsiders to both. Half-orcs are children of violence feared by humans and tolerated by orcs.

Mechanics: both races get abilities similar to their non-human parents. Both packages are in general weaker than their nhp. They get no unique traits from their human side. Half-elves (without ASI) are weaker than elves and half-orcs are only likewise worse than the current orc. Both would need a new ability to make them unique from elves and orcs respectively

Those are no longer the flavor not mechanics for setting created for 4e or 5e.

That's the issue. Everyone is defaulting back to 3e or 2e.

 

[CreamCloud0]

name: the half-terminology has been deemed problematic to some people, implying half-breed stereotypes.

okay yeah the Half-X terminology isn't great, but being of mixed heritage isn't actually any sort of flaw and IMO implying that it is leans a little too close to ideas of purism and i'll leave it at that lest i violate enworld rules.

flavor: half-elves are a race that are not accepted by either parents (elves for not being pure, humans for being part other) and exist as outsiders to both. Half-orcs are children of violence feared by humans and tolerated by orcs.

alternately: half elves are accepted by both groups but are strung in the middle of two biologically very different groups and thus experience neither's cultural touchstones in the same ways, outliving humans by generations and outlived themselves by elves and unable to trance to truly understand their culture of recalling past lives, half orcs could be more of a physical mismatch, lacking the pure physical musculature and adrenaline responses of a pure orc but outstripping what humans are capable of.

Mechanics: both races get abilities similar to their non-human parents. Both packages are in general weaker than their nhp. They get no unique traits from their human side. Half-elves (without ASI) are weaker than elves and half-orcs are only likewise worse than the current orc. Both would need a new ability to make them unique from elves and orcs respectively.

yes, in fact, people in this thread have already said multiple times that we want to give these half-species their own unique mechanics that make them stand out as their own thing.

Niche: half-orcs no longer need to be "PC playable orcs" because we now have PC playable orcs that aren't crippled or lopsided. Half-elves niche of being elves with better class options (AD&D) or bard elves (3e on) aren't relevant since elves can be any class since 2000 and races aren't built to be "the strong one, the quick one, the charismatic one" anymore. The only niche both fill is the mixed heritage one, which should be an option for every race rather than two specific crosses.

the niche they fill and people want them for is not a mechanical one but a narrative one, you have already been told this by other people and myself, however, the fact they fill a narrative role does not disregard giving them their own distinct mechanics.

Which is the problem: the name is a problem, the flavor is a problem, the mechanics are nothing to write home about, and their niche has evaporated due to how the race rules have changed over the years. I'd rather have someone make a good mixed ancestry option than keep these two relics.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That's the issue. Everyone is defaulting back to 3e or 2e.

Defaulting back to 3e or 2e is like 70% of 5e's selling points 'round these parts.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Which is why we need to stop looking to WotC to make the game we want.

Yet people keep doing it.

They are making the game that I want.