D&D 5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[Minigiant]

What's 'modern paladin?' If the distinction between paladin and cleric is that the paladin is much more fighty than the cleric who is more casty, I think paladin could easily work as a fighter subclass. Basically an eldritch knight except with cleric spells. And sure, that would make paladin a bit less magical, but to me that is a feature, not a bug.

I think the problem is you are not looking at all the paladin class features that aren't spellcasting and weapon/armor proficiency: Divine Sense, Lay on Hands, Divine Smite, Divine Health, Aura of Protection, etc

Mechanics and Flavor, the modern paladin is neither a fighter nor a cleric. The paladin doesn't defeat challenges by casting spells nor using martial combat techniques. The paladin uses divine boosts to overwhelm hostile opponents and their charisma to sway potential allies.

The paladin is overtly magical. The paladin however doesn't solve its problems with spells. The paladin itself is the magical being. In layman's terms, the modern paladin is literally playing a monster. You're not a warrior or a white mage. You're a lesser angel/devil.

You can shove the 2e paladin back into the cleric or the fighter. Not the 5e one. That's the real reason why a rollback won't work. You'd have to strip the fighter or cleric bare to load the 5e paladin back in OR create an overpowered reward subclass like the old paladin.

I mean, the 5e paladin is one of the strongest classes in 5e. Do you really want to give it full fighter or cleric features on top of that?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think the problem is you are not looking at all the paladin class features that aren't spellcasting and weapon/armor proficiency: Divine Sense, Lay on Hands, Divine Smite, Divine Health, Aura of Protection, etc

Eldritch knight gets features on top of their spellcasting, so a paladin can still have some of those, though some might need to be toned down. And it is redundant to have both lay on hands and access to healing spells, these are thematically the same thing with needless double mechanics.

I mean, the 5e paladin is one of the strongest classes in 5e. Do you really want to give it full fighter or cleric features on top of that?

In my suggestion the magical abilities and features of paladin are toned down to eldritch knight levels, so they would be balanced.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You really can't make the modern Paladin as a Fighter subclass

I agree with @Crimson Longinus that it wouldn't be hard and last night thought of the clerical version of the Eldritch Knight (who instead of a 1/3 caster I would make a 1/2 caster personally).

You can shove the 2e paladin back into the cleric or the fighter. Not the 5e one. That's the real reason why a rollback won't work. You'd have to strip the fighter or cleric bare to load the 5e paladin back in OR create an overpowered reward subclass like the old paladin.

True, but for many of us that is part of the problem with 5E (or even 3E in some ways).

You could make a paladin subclass, but it wouldn't have all the features of the paladin class (it couldn't, as you know).

But, of all the classes, Paladin was one of the seven classes (along with Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard) people here voted to keep in a poll I did months ago.

D&D 5E - What Seven Classes Would You Keep? (and why!)

So, I've been thinking lately about classes and archetypes. Many of you probably see this in my threads about the Battle Master, "Which Class is Best", etc. For reasons to be disclosed later on, if you HAD to remove 5 classes from the core 12, keeping only 7, which ones would you want to see...

www.enworld.org

So, if I removed classes from the game, Paladin wouldn't be one of them.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

The paladin is overtly magical. The paladin however doesn't solve its problems with spells. The paladin itself is the magical being. In layman's terms, the modern paladin is literally playing a monster. You're not a warrior or a white mage. You're a lesser angel/devil.

If that was really the flavor of the 5e paladin, I would have banned it long ago. Monster player characters aren't my thing.

Instead, I see the paladin as a man or woman who swears an oath to embody an ideal (justice, freedom, etc.), thereby binding the character to the primal powers of Law and Chaos, Good and Evil.

 

[Minigiant]

If that was really the flavor of the 5e paladin, I would have banned it long ago. Monster player characters aren't my thing.

Instead, I see the paladin as a man or woman who swears an oath to embody an ideal (justice, freedom, etc.), thereby binding the character to the primal powers of Law and Chaos, Good and Evil.

Yeah, a man or woman swears an oath and becomes a celestial monster.
The paladin has several immunities, has magic eyes, and hits like a truck.
The Devotion paladin gets a nimbus. The Ancient one turns green. And the Vengeance paladin on sprouts wings.

The modern interpretation of a paladin is an oathbound zealot who slowly turns into an angel.

Eldritch knight gets features on top of their spellcasting, so a paladin can still have some of those, though some might need to be toned down. And it is redundant to have both lay on hands and access to healing spells, these are thematically the same thing with needless double mechanics.

In my suggestion the magical abilities and features of paladin are toned down to eldritch knight levels, so they would be balanced.

Then it wouldn't be a modern paladin then.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yeah, a man or woman swears an oath and becomes a celestial monster.
The paladin has several immunities, has magic eyes, and hits like a truck.
The Devotion paladin gets a nimbus. The Ancient one turns green. And the Vengeance paladin on sprouts wings.

The modern interpetation of a paladin is an oathbound zealot who slowly turns into an angel.

That's stupid though so getting rid of that sort of nonsense would be a boon. Paladin should be a devout knight with a smidgen of divine power.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Yeah, a man or woman swears an oath and becomes a celestial monster.
The paladin has several immunities, has magic eyes, and hits like a truck.
The Devotion paladin gets a nimbus. The Ancient one turns green. And the Vengeance paladin on sprouts wings.

The modern interpetation of a paladin is an oathbound zealot who slowly turns into an angel.

Whatever you want in your game is cool with me. If one of my players tried to tell me he was becoming an angel, I'd tell him he's better off finding a different DM.

I'm glad the game is sufficiently broad as to encompass both our visions. You can have your "modern paladin." I'll stick with my plain old "paladin."

 

[Minigiant]

Whatever you want in your game is cool with me. If one of my players tried to tell me he was becoming an angel, I'd tell him he's better off finding a different DM.

I'm glad the game is sufficiently broad as to encompass both our visions. You can have your "modern paladin." I'll stick with my plain old "paladin."

That's the official flavor. The 3e to 4e to 5e flavor has paladins as lesser monsters.

That's stupid though so getting rid of that sort of nonsense would be a boon. Paladin should be a devout knight with a smidgen of divine power.

Too late this is the modern paladin

Clad in plate armor that gleams in the sunlight despite the dust and grime of long travel, a human lays down her sword and shield and places her hands on a mortally wounded man. Divine radiance shines from her hands, the man’s wounds knit closed, and his eyes open wide with amazement.


A dwarf crouches behind an outcrop, his black cloak making him nearly invisible in the night, and watches an orc war band celebrating its recent victory. Silently, he stalks into their midst and whispers an oath, and two orcs are dead before they even realize he is there.


Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness.


Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Whether sworn before a god’s altar and the witness of a priest, in a sacred glade before nature spirits and fey beings, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witness, a paladin’s oath is a powerful bond. It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion.

Paladins train for years to learn the skills of combat, mastering a variety of weapons and armor. Even so, their martial skills are secondary to the magical power they wield: power to heal the sick and injured, to smite the wicked and the undead, and to protect the innocent and those who join them in the fight for justice.

ripped right from D&D beyond

Paladins be angels now.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Too late this is the modern paladin

It changed into that and it can be changed back.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Paladins be angels now.

Luckily, neither you nor I are bound by Mike Mearl's super special flavor text.

Different classes take different roles in different settings. The flavor text in the books defaults to the Forgotten Realms. Since I don't run my games there, Mike's super special flavor test doesn't apply.