D&D 5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[The Crimson Binome]

Except that eldritch knights suck at gish-ing, and share almost nothing with the class I made.

It's a dude with a sword who occasionally casts spells. Trust me, I know what a gish is.

The only differences between the official Eldritch Knight, and your thing, are a couple of different abilities and some different numbers. More specifically, your version is power crept out the wazoo.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It's a dude with a sword who occasionally casts spells. Trust me, I know what a gish is.

The only differences between the official Eldritch Knight, and your thing, are a couple of different abilities and some different numbers. More specifically, your version is power crept out the wazoo.

And there are many other classes and subclasses in 5e that are dudes with swords that cast spells. I know what a gish is, too.

This "thing" has better action economy than an Eldritch Knight, is a blend of a fighter and arcane caster the same way that a paladin is a blend of a fighter and a cleric. Also, of course there are issues with this, it's a rough draft of a homebrew class! What, do you expect me to design an expertly balanced class instantly? The purpose of getting feedback on something is to get help balancing it. If you think there are problems with it, you can give more specific constructive comments, instead of crapping on the idea.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Here, made a rough draft of the Gish class. I have based some abilities off of the Pathfinder Magus (Spell Strike, Magic Recall), but have also been taking personal liberties while designing it.

Hmm... I wonder if something is up with the post in EnWorld in my browser...

I am only seeing the first three levels and nothing past Defensive Style, but obviously there should be more...

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Hmm... I wonder if something is up with the post in EnWorld in my browser...

I am only seeing the first three levels and nothing past Defensive Style, but obviously there should be more...

View attachment 126262

That happened to me a few times, it should have a "show more" button there, but it won't show up some times. I had to reload the screen and wait, and it eventually would come. Try that, if that doesn't work, I don't know what will work.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

And there are many other classes and subclasses in 5e that are dudes with swords that cast spells. I know what a gish is, too.

Then why would you bother proposing another one? This one has been done to death.

This "thing" has better action economy than an Eldritch Knight, is a blend of a fighter and arcane caster the same way that a paladin is a blend of a fighter and a cleric. Also, of course there are issues with this, it's a rough draft of a homebrew class! What, do you expect me to design an expertly balanced class instantly?

I expect you to not create a class which is conceptually identical to an existing class, but better. That's basic game design theory. First, you should never create something that already exists. Second, you should never create something that's obviously broken, relative to the existing reference point.

If you hate the Eldritch Knight because you think it's too weak, then you should fix it, so everyone knows what you're doing and can critique it accordingly. A homebrew fix operates on a different scale from adding something new, because it tacitly removes the previous version as a comparison.

 

[TwoSix]

Thanks, I worked a bit to properly design it. It's a powerful ability, but I don't think it's OP.

Yep, strong mechanic, and balanced enough to be able to be the "core" of the concept. Other ideas should flow out of this.

Just to avoid multiquote:

Imbued Weapon - I'd decide if you want the class to be Int-focused, or Str/Dex focused. If you want Int-focused, Imbued Weapon should be a baseline always-on ability. If Str/Dex, I'd lose the "use Int to attack" part, and have the Imbued Weapon uses drive other class and subclass abilities. If you want both, I'd gate Imbued as either a selectable feature or a subclass feature.

Strike Sustainer - I'd leave as is and let playtesting decide. It's twin spell, but with a major action economy hit and on a spell list that doesn't have a lot of concentration debuffs. It's probably OK.

On trackable abilites, I'd probably make the "detect magic" ability an at-will. It costs an action, I believe, which limits spammability in combat. Imbued Weapon could change depending on what you want to do with it. I might make the "regain spell slot" ability once per short rest rather than prof mod per long rest, easier to track.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Then why would you bother proposing another one? This one has been done to death.

Not an arcane half-casting gish in 5e. That's why I made this.

I expect you to not create a class which is conceptually identical to an existing class, but better. That's basic game design theory. First, you should never create something that already exists. Second, you should never create something that's obviously broken, relative to the existing reference point.

I didn't create something that already exists. This is not an eldritch knight, it is distinct. Eldritch Knights get 4 attacks in an action, this only gets 2. Eldritch Knights get action surge, more ability score improvements, and everything else fighters get. This is different. Also, if it's obviously broken, help fix it.

If you hate the Eldritch Knight because you think it's too weak, then you should fix it, so everyone knows what you're doing and can critique it accordingly. A homebrew fix operates on a different scale from adding something new, because it tacitly removes the previous version as a comparison.

I do think that the Eldritch Knight is bad, but I did not design this to be a fix for that. War Clerics exist, and so do Paladins. That is the relationship between the Eldritch Knight and this class, but the other way around.

 

[Cadence]

• Scholar

I've pondered this briefly once or twice in the past and then found myself thinking it wouldn't be very good.

Re-reading Glen Cook's Dread Empire series has two characters that makes me wonder how it would work though... the spectacularly written Magelin Radetic in the prequels, and then the more superficial Michael Trebilcock at the end of the main sequence and in the sequels. That they apparently teach fencing at the Rebsamen University in Hellin Daimiel would probably be important to making them playable. The former has also has some "rally the troops" skills when pressed and the later is good at being a sneak. (I can't imagine de Camp and Pratt's Harold Shea being nearly as useful without fencing either -- although his magical aptitude helped).

I'm more familiar with 2e and PF than 5e, and in those, I probably would have started with a Bard and nuked the magic, or a Rogue without sneak attack but who could give suggestions to colleagues (like a mini-Warlord).

 

[DND_Reborn]

@AcererakTriple6

I understand you desire for an "arcane" version of a half-caster, a kin to Paladins (divine) and Rangers (primal), but the last thing I want to see (personally) is more classes in D&D.

It actually got me thinking a bit about going the other route... Make a warrior/half-caster class, with subclasses of "Gish", Paladin, Ranger; where by choosing the subclass you are choosing whether your half-caster is all about arcane, divine, or primal.

 

[Mecheon]

I've pondered this briefly once or twice in the past and then found myself thinking it wouldn't be very good.

There's two pretty popular DMs Guild one out there so its an archetype people have delved into. I just, haven't tried any of them so can't say how they perform

Unfortunately though, I hear 'scholar' and my MMO destroyed brain immediately thinks "Ah, yes, scholar of Nym. So you'll be throwing out all the heavy hitter spells while your fairy does the healing job, I see there, Green DPS"