D&D (2024) Should a general Adventurer class be created to represent the Everyman?

[Remathilis]

I guess I'm saying that there could be a class does minimal training, upgrades your background, and gives you a little more luck, grit, or fate to compensate.

The Farmer gets Tougher and Tougher. Tougher than a fighter but doesn't know 30 ways to kill a many with 5 weapons. Just 3 ways to kill with a glaive.
The Merchant gets Luckier and Luckier. Luckier than a Rogue but less knowledgeable of skullduggery and no way as dodgy. They compensate for lack of speed with training with heavy armor and an axe.
The exSailor is no monk but packs a good punch. And he picked up a few water based cantrips and is using a magic anchor as a weapon.

Yes, but I can be all those things and still be a class. That's the beauty of backgrounds. I can be a farmer AND a fighter, a Merchant AND a rogue, a sailor AND a monk. Why would I want to be a lesser version?

 

[ezo]

I heard it in Pre3e D&D tables and many games that replicated them.

It took a while for mages to get good and there were few ways to mitigate the restrictions.

All I can say is before WotC that was never my experience. Sure, people gripped about the first few levels with d4 HD and limited spell use, but once an MU or mage hit 5th level, things shifted. By 11th or so, they were powerful no doubt. Part of the balance was surviving those low levels IME.

I'm saying that the level of education and training for PCs has drastically increased.

I think more it is the shifting of views really, personally, but I see your point.

Look at the write up for the Fighter in 2024.

Well, right there is one of your problems...

It's beyond basic training. The D&D fighter is special force training. There is nothing between that are the Rogue's Super Shinobi School level training. There is no learning the basics and relying on the skills of your background, upgrading them as you go. You are going to an elite warrior program, mage training, priest tutelage, etc.

You can't even be just a town guard who goes for a score. The flavor for classes are just professionals, they are elite professionals. You may be novices at level 1 but you are all coming out of special forces programs.

In 5E at least this is the background IMO. By the time you get a leveled class, you are beyond basic training. A soldier background is basic training, a fighter is special forces out of commando school.

This would be more represented if backgrounds granted proficiencies like many homebrews do. Ours, for example, has soldier get proficiency in STR, DEX, or CON save, light armor and shields, two simple and two martial weapons, along with two skills and two tools and/or languages.

You combine that background with wizard, for example, and now you have a PC who is ripe for War Magic subclass for example.

This also allows you to foster the level-0 as race and background alone and gives you enough stuff to do without gaining special class features like Second Wind.

I guess I'm saying that there could be a class does minimal training, upgrades your background, and gives you a little more luck, grit, or fate to compensate.

Sure, a "survivor" class which is all about making it through the adventure with very limited features on the "proactive or offensive-side" of things but many more on the "reactive or defensive-side" where the luck, grit, fate kicks in to help keep the PC alive beyond simple "more hp"?

Is that what you're thinking of??

The Farmer gets Tougher and Tougher. Tougher than a fighter but doesn't know 30 ways to kill a many with 5 weapons. Just 3 ways to kill with a glaive.
The Merchant gets Luckier and Luckier. Luckier than a Rogue but less knowledgeable of skullduggery and no way as dodgy. They compensate for lack of speed with training with heavy armor and an axe.
The exSailor is no monk but packs a good punch. And he picked up a few water based cantrips and is using a magic anchor as a weapon.

These would sort of suggest that IMO. Or am I wrong?

 

[Theory of Games]

Yes, but EVERYONE in those games are equally puny. DCC characters are all equally likely to die. We're talking about a puny character amongst the hyper-competent party of traditional D&D classes.


I don't consider Luke to be an everyman. Even in A New Hope, he's a remarkable bush-pilot, a crack shot with a blaster, and an amazing mechanic. And that's all before Obi-Wan tells him he's a space-wizard.

But the others all survive due to Plot Armor. Specifically, they survive because they are the main character(s) and the story would end without them, or they survive because fool's luck and contrivance bend space and time to make them. That is incredibly hard to do in an RPG unless the DM himself is going to give said armor (aka cheat for him) or the class is built with all the resources a normal character has but couched in ways to make it luck rather than skill. The rogue uses evasion because he's trained to dodge blasts like that, an everyman avoids the fireball because he blew his luck-points to take no damage.

What WON'T sell is the everyman who lacks that sort of plot armor. All you have a handful of skills, some simple weapons and light armor proficiencies, and a d8 HD. Make your way in the world. That is a much harder sell unless you find a player who likes hard-mode challenges. I don't think that sort of design will fly (and if it would, its very easy to do).

Nope. Luke has "The Force" which = his luck dice. How does he make the shot that explodes the Death Star? Luck/The Force. When he jumps to escape Vader how does he escape a certain death? Luck/The Force. Luke is a stupid moisture farmer who didn't even want to become a Jedi until the GM killed his family forcing him into the adventure.

Thank you GM Lucas! And how does the GM keep the dumb kid alive? Luck points/The Force. "Use the Luck Points, Luke". Even Obi-Wan knew way back then.

The Luck points ARE the plot armor but its plot armor controlled by the player. We can make this work.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope. Luke has "The Force" which = his luck dice. How does he make the shot that explodes the Death Star? Luck/The Force. When he jumps to escape Vader how does he escape a certain death? Luck/The Force. Luke is a stupid moisture farmer who didn't even want to become a Jedi until the GM killed his family forcing him into the adventure.

Thank you GM Lucas! And how does the GM keep the dumb kid alive? Luck points/The Force. "Use the Luck Points, Luke". Even Obi-Wan knew way back then.

The Luck points ARE the plot armor but its plot armor controlled by the player. We can make this work.

See, to me it would feel very hollow and artificial to be the one in control of outcomes that have nothing to do with my PC's actions. This is why I don't like metacurrency.

 

[Minigiant]

Nope. Luke has "The Force" which = his luck dice. How does he make the shot that explodes the Death Star? Luck/The Force. When he jumps to escape Vader how does he escape a certain death? Luck/The Force. Luke is a stupid moisture farmer who didn't even want to become a Jedi until the GM killed his family forcing him into the adventure.

Thank you GM Lucas! And how does the GM keep the dumb kid alive? Luck points/The Force. "Use the Luck Points, Luke". Even Obi-Wan knew way back then.

The Luck points ARE the plot armor but its plot armor controlled by the player. We can make this work.

Exactly

By the time Luke multiclassed to take his first Jedi levels, he was a level 5 farmer faking a pilot who dumped all his luck dice into a planet killing high power construct.

Lucas: You learn the monster is vulnerable to crits
Lukes's Player: Cover me boys. I got this.

 

[Yaarel]

See, to me it would feel very hollow and artificial to be the one in control of outcomes that have nothing to do with my PC's actions. This is why I don't like metacurrency.

Suppose the character does have the "magical power" of lucky bastard.

How would you implement this concept of stuff going on around him, that dont seem to be initiated by him (even tho they are)?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Suppose the character does have the "magical power" of lucky bastard.

How would you implement this concept of stuff going on around him, that dont seem to be initiated by him (even tho they are)?

I suppose I would have the DM do it following an edifying discussion with the player before the game. More likely I just wouldn't include such a meta-focused option in my game.

 

[FrozenNorth]

No, it's big. Look at DCC or even Shadowdark. The PCs are puny but not completely useless.

The key is how you market The Everyman: you build up the other classes making them seem so amazing - then introduce the young, lovable, naive farmboy from Tatooine. The smily-faced, charming, club-footed Hobbit from the shire. Those hilarious and nosy kids and their dog riding around in that silly van.

Of those examples, only the Jedi got in nearly as many life-threatening combats as the average D&D party. And as others have pointed out, super-special space magus doesn’t exactly scream everyman.

I mean, the actual everyman in Star Wars is pretty clearly Han.

 

[Minigiant]

Suppose the character does have the "magical power" of lucky bastard.

How would you implement this concept of stuff going on around him, that dont seem to be initiated by him (even tho they are)?

Heck every PC is a lucky bastard.

A high level PC likely seen more near death experiences from weapons that just missed a vital organ than they had birthdays.

 

[Yaarel]

I suppose I would have the DM do it following an edifying discussion with the player before the game. More likely I just wouldn't include such a meta-focused option in my game.

That is alot of responsibility on the DM to keep track of. As DM, I would rather delegate it to the player.

Some aspects of luck can be automated. "When you are targeted by an attack or spell, instead the targeter or a target near the targeter is targeted." "When you die, you instead ..."