D&D 4E Should Ability Scores in 4E Be Randomly Determined?

[wgreen]

In other words, I think (from personal experience) that rolling is more new player friendly, as a person who's never played before would have less of a set idea of what kind of character they want, as well as "rewarding" them from the start by letting them roll dice. That said, I see no reason why the two couldn't be listed side-by-side, with point buy being listed as an "Advanced" generation system.

I'm a bit late to the game, but I'm really surprised it took 71 posts before anyone mentioned this. This is huge, IMO. All of us here have a decent amount of D&D experience under our belts, but for a complete newbie, rolling is vastly superior to point-buy, not only for the reasons listed above, but also because even new players who know what they want won't know at first the best way to get it.

If only one method is going to be included in the PHB, I really think it must be rolling. If multiple methods may be included, I'm down with tek2way's suggestion of point-buy being marked as "advanced." Actually, an array-based system might be a good compromise ("intermediate?").

The fewer decisions new players have to make to get started, the better. In fact, it might not be a terrible idea to re-introduce an organic method as a recommendation for new players.

-Will

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I like the chance of having a all 18 character. An all 3 character is the risk you take. Reall men roll Ability scores.

 

[Wormwood]

Reall men roll Ability scores.

Man, that *never* stops being adorable!

 

[Masquerade]

I use an array plus bonuses of +1, +2, and +3 that can each be assigned to any one ability score, with no more than one bonus applied to any score.

So, start with 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15. Adding the bonuses could get you:

10, 10, 12, 13, 17, 16

8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18

8, 10, 12, 16, 16, 16

10, 10, 15, 14, 14, 15

11, 12, 13, 13, 14, 15

And so on. There's quite a bit of variety without going overboard and allowing extremely min/maxed stats like some point buy systems. As you can easily see by the last example, it can be used to make a bell curve (scores average to 13), or as most players will do, stack the stats on the end giving a couple mediocre scores along with a somewhat bad one. With racial abilities on top, you still have the option of taking one score of 6 if you want to be a grumpy dwarf.

Genius! I will be stealing this idea for any future pre-4e games.

 

[Jhaelen]

An all 3 character is the risk you take. Reall men roll Ability scores.

I've never seen anyone take that risk. To me it always looked more like this:
'Real men are good at finding excuses why their character with sub-par ability scores would commit suicide at the first opportunity, so they'd be able to reroll.'

 

[Thunderfoot]

I know there are many that subscribe to the point buy method as great and balanced...hang balanced, if I can roll three 15s, a 16, a 17 and an 18, guess what...the stars aligned and my parents had good DNA; you roll five 9s, blame your 'parents'(in game of course). Life is a random crap shoot, not everyone can be good at everything, but there are the rare few that are both smart and strong, pretty and dexterous, wise and healthy. Likewise there are some people that just lose at life that got zero breaks. Just because your dice let you down, don't complain that you got a raw deal. Its called luck and random probability, its part of the game, if you don't like it, play an MMORPG. (Sorry, that sounds more firm than I'd like, but I can't think of another way to say it. If you can, please give suggestions and I'll edit - thanks)

3.5 was all about balance; that was, frankly one element I didn't like about it, one of the things that made D&D great was that random element. Point buy has its place (tourneys, living campaigns, etc), just not at my gaming table. I'll get down off my soapbox now - I'm sure flames are incoming.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Point buy is superior to 4d6-drop-the-lowest IMO. My players have a fair distribution of stats and it's easier for me to balance encounters for them. At the higher levels it doesn't matter as much, but most of our gaming is done in the 1-10 level range.

That said, not knowing anything about building characters or encounters in 4e, random ability scores might be 10x better than any point buy for the system. Who knows.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I know there are many that subscribe to the point buy method as great and balanced...hang balanced, if I can roll three 15s, a 16, a 17 and an 18, guess what...the stars aligned and my parents had good DNA; you roll five 9s, blame your 'parents'(in game of course).

... Then kill off your useless character at the earliest opportunity, so that you can reroll and generate a better set of parents.

Alternatively, play it for laughs and revel in your ineffectiveness.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Not only should ability scores be randomized, but I believe that there's a lot of fun and interest to be had by limiting a player's choice (to some degree or another) in which rolled stat goes where.

I dislike point buys because I find it tends to promote ruts. The player who always plays X will always distribute his stats as Y, with little variation. Case in point, I know a person who, if given a point buy, will never have lower than a 16 int. Ever. And doesn't play mages.

On top of that, the standard rolled method (by which you roll and then arrange your stats as you please) still promotes some rut mentality -- "let's see, my dex is high, I'll use cha as my dump stat, and..."

I recently started a game in which I had my characters roll their stats in order, and then I gave them the option to re-roll one or trade the positions of two of them. They ended up a) playing classes out of their norm in some cases, and b) considering character builds for a class they would have played anyways that they never would have considered otherwise. To my knowledge, once they got past a bit of initial grumbling, they're all enjoying their characters, and the somewhat odd stat distributions has created some really great character personalities in the process.

In the original AD&D DMG there was a method where you subtracted 2 from an unwanted high stat and added one to the desired stat. So if that 17 DEX just wasn't enough for your thief and that 15 WIS was a waste of a good roll one add/sub later you had an 18 DEX and 13 WIS. It made you think of your scores as a total package instead of just a grouping of single individual rolls. This is one thing I think gets ran over in the newer editions and why the Paladin is now looked upon with such derision. Used to you had to get lucky enough to play one, now you wither get stuck with one or end up getting screwed over because the rest of the party doesn't want a 'goody-goody' hanging around.

 

[Thunderfoot]

... Then kill off your useless character at the earliest opportunity, so that you can reroll and generate a better set of parents.

Alternatively, play it for laughs and revel in your ineffectiveness.

Actually, I have a player that has two stats under 10 and role-plays them brilliantly, or course, I don't see many players with that kind of role-play instinct much anymore, so, I can understand why most people would just want to cry about it. I have stated many times how much powergaming and balance rules have affected the RP part of Roleplaying, I just wish more people could see it.