D&D 4E Should Ability Scores in 4E Be Randomly Determined?

[GreatLemur]

Don't forget to get rid of randomly rolled starting cash, too.

I don't think I've ever run or played in a game that didn't ignore that completely. Also, the idea of different classes starting off with different amounts of cash bugs me a lot.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Point Buy default in the PHB with Dice Variants in the DMG.

Seconded.

 

[gothmaugCC]

Its DnD for goodness sakes! We LIKE to roll dice. Isnt that the point, A bit of randomness in your game? I can understand the point buy system and static Hp for all the RPGA style games out there (to promote fair play and keep people from whining "he cheated on his ability scores"), but for home play, half the fun in character generation is working with our strengths AND limitations. I know half the number jockeys out there want a character with all 18's who can benchpress a mac truck, and shoot fireballs from his eyes, but the point of the game is to develop a character. Its a ROLEPLaying game for goodness sakes.

Though i have no problems with all the ROLLplayers out there. (and considering how much living greyhawk and Living arcanis I judge, I have ample experience on both ends of the spectrum). Both groups should be able to play thier preferred way.

For 4th edition, keep the rolling AND point buy options. I mean seriously, how much space does it take up? One whole page for both systems?

Gothmaug

P.S. I was suprised on how the poll turned out (with "point buy system" winning), but upon thinking about it, i bet the majority of people on these boards are of a more strict and serious gamer type. The more causal crowd probably has no idea these boards exist

 

[Cadfan]

Its DnD for goodness sakes! We LIKE to roll dice. Isnt that the point, A bit of randomness in your game?... ...Its a ROLEPLaying game for goodness sakes.

This amused me. All those ROLEplayers just want to ROLL their dice... I'm a ROLEplayer and I'll ROLL the way the I want to! You ROLLplayers can't stop my ROLLing...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Its DnD for goodness sakes! We LIKE to roll dice. Isnt that the point, A bit of randomness in your game?

A bit, yes. And in the game. Not before the game. During the game, like when you try to persuade the duke to stop his invasion, or when you try to make something stop moving by hitting it with a dangerous item, as often and as hard as possible.

But during character creation, I prefer to be in control. I don't want to see roll for how good my character's stats will be any more than I want my race, classes, spells or feats rolled.

I can understand the point buy system and static Hp for all the RPGA style games out there (to promote fair play and keep people from whining "he cheated on his ability scores")

Same holds for local games. We don't want to have the Gm watch our character rolls (and rerolls, if it turns out you can't play with the first couple of sets of rolls because you are on an unlucky streak).

but for home play, half the fun in character generation is working with our strengths AND limitations.

It's not like point buy has its limitations. It's not points-given-away. You're on a budget, if you will.

I know half the number jockeys out there want a character with all 18's

You know, unlike you use 96 point buy, this is impossible with point buy, but not if you roll for your ability scores.

but the point of the game is to develop a character.

Point buy doesn't preclude that.

Its a ROLEPLaying game for goodness sakes.

Exactly! We want to play the role, not ROLL the role (like, rolling dice for the ability scores and hoping to roll really well - and whining for a reroll if you don't do so well). That would be ROLLplaying!

For 4th edition, keep the rolling AND point buy options. I mean seriously, how much space does it take up? One whole page for both systems?

Of course. Point buy (with several point ranges suggested), several rolling methods, and maybe even something crazy, like "DM lets his players pick their stats" or something to do with a deck of cards.

In fact, have a monthly issue on insider with more exotic generation methods (Three Dragon Reading was nice, some more card tricks would rock, something with Inn Fighting Dice, even some questionnaire thing)


I just think that a deterministic system like point buy is more appropriate as the standard method, since it allows players to create their stats at home without the DM looking over their shoulders.

P.S. I was suprised on how the poll turned out (with "point buy system" winning), but upon thinking about it, i bet the majority of people on these boards are of a more strict and serious gamer type. The more causal crowd probably has no idea these boards exist

Casual players probably don't care enough to spend time with the hobby away from the table.

I also think that the majority shares my opinion that point buy is the best standard method. I doubt that more than a couple of people say that rolling for stats should be outlawed forever, bombings beginning in 5 minutes.

 

[gothmaugCC]

This amused me. All those ROLEplayers just want to ROLL their dice... I'm a ROLEplayer and I'll ROLL the way the I want to! You ROLLplayers can't stop my ROLLing...

Good, I'm glad I can contribute a laugh or two on the boards

 

[Kobu]

I use an array plus bonuses of +1, +2, and +3 that can each be assigned to any one ability score, with no more than one bonus applied to any score.

So, start with 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15. Adding the bonuses could get you:

10, 10, 12, 13, 17, 16

8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18

8, 10, 12, 16, 16, 16

10, 10, 15, 14, 14, 15

11, 12, 13, 13, 14, 15

And so on. There's quite a bit of variety without going overboard and allowing extremely min/maxed stats like some point buy systems. As you can easily see by the last example, it can be used to make a bell curve (scores average to 13), or as most players will do, stack the stats on the end giving a couple mediocre scores along with a somewhat bad one. With racial abilities on top, you still have the option of taking one score of 6 if you want to be a grumpy dwarf.

I think it is also superior to point buy because it does not run into the situation where the bonuses at 4th, 8th, etc. go just as easily on top of an 18 as it does on an 8. Over the course of 30 levels, an initial purchase of 18 doesn't feel so hot compared to another character's 14 along with overall better scores.

I've been using this system since 3.5 came out and even the players who preferred to roll have come to like this better. It eliminated a lot of the griping that players didn't even realize they were doing.

 

[Kaffis]

Not only should ability scores be randomized, but I believe that there's a lot of fun and interest to be had by limiting a player's choice (to some degree or another) in which rolled stat goes where.

I dislike point buys because I find it tends to promote ruts. The player who always plays X will always distribute his stats as Y, with little variation. Case in point, I know a person who, if given a point buy, will never have lower than a 16 int. Ever. And doesn't play mages.

On top of that, the standard rolled method (by which you roll and then arrange your stats as you please) still promotes some rut mentality -- "let's see, my dex is high, I'll use cha as my dump stat, and..."

I recently started a game in which I had my characters roll their stats in order, and then I gave them the option to re-roll one or trade the positions of two of them. They ended up a) playing classes out of their norm in some cases, and b) considering character builds for a class they would have played anyways that they never would have considered otherwise. To my knowledge, once they got past a bit of initial grumbling, they're all enjoying their characters, and the somewhat odd stat distributions has created some really great character personalities in the process.

 

[SteveC]

That's what the Hubris score is for. Need to determine who the evil wizard targets? Hubris. Need to know whose stuff gets stolen? Hubris.

A long time ago, the Amber Diceless Roleplay system had a rule for "good stuff" and "bad stuff" Characters who didn't spend all of their points had leftover "good stuff," while those who overspent had "bad stuff" Good/Bad stuff was used by the GM to determine things that were random and could really go either way. I'd recommend taking a look at those rules for any game where characters aren't necessarily starting on the same footing.

--Steve

 

[RFisher]

Why wait for 4e? This would be handy for anyone who wants to use point-buy in any edition.

Because I'm not likely to be playing D&D again until 4e is out. Not because I'm waiting for it, but because there's more to gaming-life than D&D. Too many games, not enough time.