D&D 4E Should Ability Scores in 4E Be Randomly Determined?

[GreatLemur]

It is different in as much as hitting 0 Str will render you helpless. If the next hit does 12 Str damage, than that single point of difference is reasonably significant.

Isn't that like saying that all hitpoints and all damage mechanics should be doubled, because that would give us additional granularity on the occasions when a character is brought down to 1 HP by an attack that does an odd number of points of damage?

I'm just not really seeing any benefits to a situation where you have 3-18 points in an ability score, and as you gain or lose points from that score, you maybe lose ability modifier points, or maybe lose other things. An alternative in which the same overall balance is maintained, only you know you're going to lose modifier points every time your score drops, and which makes more immediate and intuities sense . . . just seems like a vast improvement, to me.

I've been introducing new players to D&D, lately, so this kind of thing matters to me. Telling them things like "Okay, this effect adds +3 to your Strength, so your damage bonus increases by +1 if you've got an even number in that score, or +2 if you've got an odd number." is a pain for all involved.

While anyone who uses point buy is not going to roll stats very often, we still need the baseline for what average is so that when your PC's surprise you getting an unstatted NPC involved in something, its nice to know what the base average range for a given ability would be.

And that wouldn't be achieved by the understanding that a +0 modifier is very common while a -4 or +4 is very rare? I'd actually think the probability curve is a little easier to visualize with fewer values in it.

 

[tek2way]

Personally, I tend to favor the "randomized point buy" seen in that issue of Dragon (issue #346) mentioned above. However, I'm quite happy with standard rolling, as the preliminary session of a campaign is ALWAYS "character generation". When folks in my games DO roll stats, I check their total modifier, and make sure everyone's in a reasonable range. I don't penalize the players who rolled well, but sometimes that person who barely rolled a playable character gets a reroll. That's why I have a creation session in the first place (aside from the non-mechanical stuff like the players discussing who knows who, what each does, etc.).

As for point buy being default, I disagree. When I was a new player (back in '90), I wanted to get to rolling dice. Right out of the gate, the system allowed me to roll dice, and see what kind of fun I could have with it. Also, I rolled stats, not knowing what I'd be trying until I saw the results. If I'd been told I need to assign points (oh! like in Vampire? -- HATED IT then), I'd have gone elsewhere to find my fun.

I remember getting Skills & Powers, and seeing all the various ways a character's stats can be generated. I toyed with trying every one of them. However, the one I liked least was the point buy system (but, I think THAT system was better: one point = one stat point, and all stats started at 0). Point buy takes away that CHANCE of hitting an 18 stat, which gives me a thrill, even today.

Also, when I first looked at point buy in 3e (as per the book.. not using the cards), we came up with unsatisfying characters, either because what we wanted to achieve wasn't possible (2-handed weapon swinging paladin, to use an above example), or we wound up choosing something different altogether because we couldn't get to what we wanted. The example of a fighter with 18s in physical and 8s in mental rings true, too.

In other words, I think (from personal experience) that rolling is more new player friendly, as a person who's never played before would have less of a set idea of what kind of character they want, as well as "rewarding" them from the start by letting them roll dice. That said, I see no reason why the two couldn't be listed side-by-side, with point buy being listed as an "Advanced" generation system.

Oh, and if it ain't 3-18, it ain't D&D, and I ain't playing it. (Seriously, didn't True20 remove the range, and assign modifiers instead exclusively already?)

 

[Kaodi]

I think it might be interesting to try out one of the mixed methods of using point buy assigned by randomness, though I am not quite sure how you could make it work in a simple and balanced fashion for new players.

 

[sjmiller]

I think it might be interesting to try out one of the mixed methods of using point buy assigned by randomness, though I am not quite sure how you could make it work in a simple and balanced fashion for new players.

DragonQuest had a method for doing this. You rolled on a table which showed you the number of points you had to spend on attributes and a maximum attribute value. You could have one attribute at the max. value, two at (max-1) value, and the rest at (max-2) value. At least I think that is how it went, the DQ book is at home. The more points you had to spend, the lower your max value. This means that if you had a bad roll and only got a low number of total points you could still have at least one great attribute.

 

[Aristotle]

I have to say that, while I am still against a random stat generating mechanic, the arguments for the array method here make it sound superior to point buy to me. I've never used it, but it sounds like it forces people to play a well-rounded character (no dump stats) and gives them some freedom to decide just how specialized the character will be. So far *that* sounds like the best default system to me.

 

[Wombat]

Matter of taste, I suppose.

I know of very few D&D games anymore where people still randomly determine their stats, but why not leave it in as an option?

Barring that, since the numbers make no difference in play anyway, why not simply go the way of Blue Rose/True20 and simply assign modifiers, not stats per se.

 

[sjmiller]

Matter of taste, I suppose.

I know of very few D&D games anymore where people still randomly determine their stats, but why not leave it in as an option?

I agree with you, it is a matter of taste. I know that I have had just the opposite experience that you have had. I do not know a single D&D player who uses a determinist method of character creation. They all use a random (i.e., dice rolling) method. That is the method I prefer, and the method I will always use, given the opportunity in D&D.

 

[Kaodi]

An array system is almost guaranteed to have an option with a single dump stat, but never two.

In a more experienced group, it would be easy to take 28 point buy and roll 4d6 and assign points so that your scores were similar to the spread of the rolls.

 

[funkysnunkulator]

4E can dictate whichever they want, or nothing at all, and people will do what they want, same as in 3.5 and in all previous editions.

"the eyes begin to open...."

 

[Visceris]

That should be up to the individual DM if he or she wishes to use rolling, point buy, or whatever regardless what edition the game is.