D&D 4E Should Ability Scores in 4E Be Randomly Determined?

[Korgoth]

I know of very few D&D games anymore where people still randomly determine their stats,

O tempora! O mores!

 

[Jib]

I hate min-maxing that you get with point buys....

 

[blargney the second]

Wow, I really haven't experienced that, Jib. I can totally understand how that would be off-putting though.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I'd like to see all randomness removed from character creation and advancement: point-buy for stats, set number of hit points at each level.

Agreed.

Some people will insist on rolling their 3d6 and their HD, and that's fine as an alt rule for the DMG, but for new players the default rule should be that PC's start with fair and equal choices, not that one guy gets to dominate because he rolled really well at char gen, or that one guy gets to suck.

Stats and HP should be like Feats and Skills - you get to choose what you're good at.

 

[delericho]

Some people will insist on rolling their 3d6 and their HD, and that's fine as an alt rule for the DMG, but for new players the default rule should be that PC's start with fair and equal choices

Don't forget to get rid of randomly rolled starting cash, too.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I hate min-maxing that you get with point buys....

Is it min-maxing to choose where you put your scores, or do you make your player's roll in order?

I hate the whining I get when players say "I only got one score above 12 - can I roll over?" or even "I only have one 18, and Mike has two ..."

Everyone gets XX point buy. It's fair.

And is it really min-maxing for a Rogue to put his best stat in Dex? I'm betting that anyone with an 8 Dex would just find a different profession better suited to his strengths.

 

[sjmiller]

I hate the whining I get when players say "I only got one score above 12 - can I roll over?" or even "I only have one 18, and Mike has two ..."

I hate the whining I get when someone says, "Oh man, I just need 2 more points to make my dream character!" Or how about, "Why can't we play with 30 points this time instead of 25? That's so limiting!"

Point buy character creation brings out just as much, if not more, whining as random rolling.

For me, the real reason I do not like a point buy system for D&D is, well, it takes the fun and thrill out of character creation. For me, D&D would not be D&D without that thrill of rolling your stats and seeing what sort of character you can make from it. More often than not when using a point buy system I see people making the same types of characters over and over, never trying anything new or different. To me, that's boring.

The other reason I do not like point buy systems for D&D is that I have yet to see one that I like. The ones from 3.x were, well, wonkie, if you ask me. Can I fully explain why? Not really, they just didn't feel right.

 

[delericho]

Is it min-maxing to choose where you put your scores, or do you make your player's roll in order?

No, but when the DM can predict a PC's stats by class with a 95% level of accuracy, that's a strong indicator that there's min-maxing going on.

 

[Korgoth]

Random rolls are all about being surprised. Will I get a guy who is clearly cut from the heroic cloth, or a guy who will have to struggle to succeed?

Maybe my well-rolled guy then sucks out on hp. Or the otherwise mediocre guy does well on hp. Maybe Mr. Hotdice winds up getting hosed early on in his adventuring career by a trap. Maybe I rock out with superior playing skills and the lowly Milquetoaste of Poopiton rises someday to become Lord Milquetoaste Trollslayer... that's rags to riches, baby.

Or, you could just suck all the fun out of it and make it a dreary exercise in optimization, balance and perfectly fulfilled perfectly dull expectations.

 

[LeaderDesslok]

Either way, the 3-18 range is sacrosanct.

Why?

What's so great about the 3-18 rank? One could argue that it's what makes D&D, well, D&D, but if everything else has been changed (added feats, a working skill system, prestige classes, attacks of opportunity, a tightly defined combat system, changed saving throws, init on a d20 instead of d6, etc. etc.) what's the piont of holding onto something that has been essentially rendered meaningless?

From the standpoint of making the game easy to follow, it's an outdated measuring tool. Everything in d20 is a target number + bonuses - penalties. All my plusses and minuses are given to me, except ability mods. What's the mod for a score of 33? Oh that's easy, just subtract 10, divide by 2, and round down; (33-10)/2 = 11.5 = +11. Wouldn't it be easier to just say +11, especially for the mathematically challenged?