D&D (2024) Should Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade be in the new PHB?

Undrave

Legend
I'll be blunt. The way 5e is structured, you're going to need a brand new class for that. A Fighter subclass like the Eldritch Knight doesn't have the room for it. You're talking about something completely different than the usual deal, and Fighter subclasses just aren't that transformative.
What's so transformative about 'you melee weapon attacks can deal ice, fire or lightning damage' ??
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Fighting styles apply to any weapon attack. They can work on off hand attack, they can work on opportunity attack, they can work with actions granted by someone else, the action type doesn't matter. Why WOULDN'T they work with the attack part of the Cantrip? It's usually a very VERY poor bonus of like...1 or 2 damage.

Well the campaign I mentionned had a Warlock too. It was usually the group's Paladin who would ask if we needed a short rest.

Why would you need 'fiat' to prevent a short rest when the story can provide the impetus naturally? And why do you feel the need to 'stomp it' in the first place if there's a natural time to do a 1 hour short rest?

And I think we've gotten way too far off the main topic here... I'm not sure I remember how we got on ragging about short rests when talking about at-will spells.
If you are casting a cantrip, you are casting a cantrip not making a weapon attack. The only particularly novel part of casting booming blade or GFB is that you can cast it using strength pr dex instead of int or charisma. Any time you make exceptions like you are trying to call for it causes exponentially more possibly broken combos that the GM needs to account for or avoid... That would be avoided if the two cantrips in question were built for a more fitting designspace for weapon users than casting a level zero spell.

As to why a GM would need to use fiat to deny a short rest, you said it yourself
]I always ask the other players if we can take a short rest, should the situation allow it, before I go 'nova' with my short rest ressources.
The bar on resting is set so low that any situation shy of active combat is "a situation that allows for it". Because the RAW for resting mechanics leave no meaningful hurdles needing to be met that would provide hooks for the GM to point at. As a result you did not even bother to mention the GM as someone to ask "if we can take a short rest".
 

Kurotowa

Legend
What's so transformative about 'you melee weapon attacks can deal ice, fire or lightning damage' ??
I was assuming the poster meant something more substantial than just a change in damage type. A point I tried to interrogate further in the new thread they created.

That's the problem with people saying they want a dedicated class for gish or swordmage or spellblade or whatever they title it. It's a broad archetype and often people have very different images of what it entails.
 

Undrave

Legend
The bar on resting is set so low that any situation shy of active combat is "a situation that allows for it". Because the RAW for resting mechanics leave no meaningful hurdles needing to be met that would provide hooks for the GM to point at. As a result you did not even bother to mention the GM as someone to ask "if we can take a short rest".
The GM set the situation we are in! I don't need to ask permission if we're not besieged by enemies! And why would I ask the DM before I ask the other players if they're on board with a short rest to begin with? That would just be a waste of time.

-"We just cleared this nest of Kobold, how about we take a short rest before heading to town?"
-"Good idea, but we shouldn't stay in here in case others come back."
-"Let's find a spot in the thicker part of the wood to sit down."
-"DM, did we see a spot like that?"

A short rest isn't a big deal.

If you are casting a cantrip, you are casting a cantrip not making a weapon attack. The only particularly novel part of casting booming blade or GFB is that you can cast it using strength pr dex instead of int or charisma. Any time you make exceptions like you are trying to call for it causes exponentially more possibly broken combos that the GM needs to account for or avoid
There's nothing a Fighting Style can do to a melee cantrip that is broken. And I don't agree it's an exception, it's perfectly logical for something that applies to melee weapon regardless of the source to apply here. You're making a melee weapon attack as part of the casting, how is that melee weapon attack not the same as when you take the attack action or use your reaction?
 

Undrave

Legend
They’re already in books. Does it matter which book they’re in? Unless you’re saying they need changing I don’t see why they need to be in the new PHB.
I think the idea is accessibility for people starting with the new PHB. Helps round out the Eldritch Knight, for exemple.
 

Kurotowa

Legend
I think the idea is accessibility for people starting with the new PHB. Helps round out the Eldritch Knight, for exemple.
It would, but the Eldritch Knight also got a boost from the changes in the Bastions & Cantrips UA. Acid Splash is an AoE instead of a cleave, Chill Touch is actually a touch spell and has a d10 damage die, Blade Ward is worth having, etc. I'd still like the weapon cantrips to make it in, but I think the EK could survive without them in this environment.
 

Undrave

Legend
It would, but the Eldritch Knight also got a boost from the changes in the Bastions & Cantrips UA. Acid Splash is an AoE instead of a cleave, Chill Touch is actually a touch spell and has a d10 damage die, Blade Ward is worth having, etc. I'd still like the weapon cantrips to make it in, but I think the EK could survive without them in this environment.
Still just mean doing magic with one hand and doing martial with the other.
 

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