D&D 5E sleep vs tasha's laughter

[Benjamin Olson]

I think you're rarely going to use Hideous Laughter, because it's concentration. You went to the trouble of getting Hex with a feat, and more often than not you won't want to drop your Hex for a single target save or suck that will likely only incapacitate an enemy for 1 round if it succeeds.

I'd go with Sleep. Sure you are not going to have a lot of encounters at level 6 where it is the win button like it frequently is at levels 1-2, but occasionally it still is the win button if the DM decides to just throw 40 goblins at you or something. It also continues to be useful if you need to subdue an already heavily damaged enemy; if you want to incapacitate a mount, familiar, or other strategically important low level enemy; if you need to defeat a low HP enemy who is exceptionally difficult to damage or finish off for some reason, and, to me most importantly, when you need some nonviolent incapacitation of random npcs, be they hapless townsguard or innocent civilians.

I'd also say that going forward Hideous Laughter is more directly superseded by higher level spells, whereas Sleep continues to shine within a niche, albeit one that slowly gets smaller level by level. So if this is just a placeholder until you can replace it with a level 2 spell it might be easier to say goodbye to Hideous Laughter, whereas if you are going to be stuck with it for many levels because you are taking mostly Wizard levels from here on out or something I'd pick Sleep as the one that continues to excell for a handful of niche purposes.

 

[jgsugden]

Both are great in different circumstances. There is no wrong choice.

 

[Stormonu]

Sleep also has out-of-combat uses, putting prison guards, shopkeepers, annoying kender and the like to sleep making it easier to slip past them. Tasha's is the opposite and is likely to draw attention (which can be useful, but generally less so).

Upcast sleep has been especially helpful in the Saltmarsh game I have been running; it's particularly good for thinning hordes and making them more manageable.

 

[auburn2]

Remember they're not a pure caster, they're mostly Rogue. 20 damage is probably what they deal if they spent the action attacking rather than burning a spell slot.

As much damage as sleep? Unlikely. Average is 14.5 if I hit with SA that is only if I hit. It creeps up to 18 if I have hex running. Average on a crit is 25, which is still less than sleep with a 2nd level slot and I would need a natural 20 for that.

 

[Dausuul]

If you get sleep, I would do so for the reason @Stormonu suggests: Use it as a noncombat tool to disable guards and the like. I have just never found it useful in combat past very low levels. There is only about a 10 hit point window where sleep really shines. If the enemy is below that window, a regular attack or cantrip drops them just as well and doesn't cost your spell slot. If the enemy is above that window, sleep has a high chance of doing nothing at all.

So you have to catch an enemy right in that window on your turn, which is rare; and correctly guess that they are in the window, which is next to impossible. The only way I would see it being effective in combat is if your DM likes to throw mobs of mooks with very low hit points at you.

As for Tasha's, it's one of my personal picks, but I play full casters where I can burn a first-level slot without thinking too much about it. I like Tasha's in midrange encounters where I don't want to bust out the big guns, but there are enemies worth using my action to lock down for a couple rounds. As an AT, with much more limited spell slots, I'm not sure how well that will work.

 

[Unwise]

I would ask your GM about uses of Sleep outside of combat. For instance, if it fails its HP roll, does it still make somebody sleepy? Can you cast it on somebody with too many HP and make them decide to go have a nap, assuming they won't lose their job for doing so?

What about if you cast it on somebody who is already sleeping? When I DM that is one of the major uses of it. I rule that it puts people into very deep sleep from which they cannot be woken without extreme measures. So you can rob the place, or steal a key from their belt easily.

 

[auburn2]

Thanks everyone. I think I am going to go with sleep. I honestly won't use it much because I have a ton of other spells I will likely use more considering this build. I would't use tasha's much eaither, but if I get sleep I will have it for those corner cases.

 

[Democratus]

I had an archmage shut down a high-level party once with a 9th level Sleep after roughing them up with a couple of AOEs.

An average of 90hp put down with no save is pretty potent.

 

[Lidgar]

Can't go wrong with either. Of note, both give advantage on your attacks against the prone targets if they are successful - which really benefits your PC!

 

[auburn2]

Can't go wrong with either. Of note, both give advantage on your attacks against the prone targets if they are successful - which really benefits your PC!

Sleep gives you autocrits too.