D&D 5E Sneak Attack with a handaxe?

[Actoba]

I dont believe there is a conflict at all.

Pg 9 of basic says
For attacks with ranged weapons, use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the thrown property, such as a handaxe, can use your strength modifier instead.


Pg 46 of basic says (the thrown property explanation, emphasis mine)
If the weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you must use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the same weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, if you throw a dagger, you can use either your strength or dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.

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For me, specifically the section on pg9, reads as "Ranged attacks use Dex, but watch out some thrown attacks, like a handaxe for example, might use strength instead." For me the intent of the pg 9 text is to suggest that there are exceptions to the "ranged attacks use Dex" rule and they use the handaxe as an example....and then the rules which govern which weapons might use a different stat, and those which have a choice (finesse), are clarified on pg 46. I agree that it's probably not ideally worded...hence why i used "might" instead of "can". But when you look at both texts at the same time I believe it's reasonably clear...though as is the nature of language, someone else's interpretation may differ

 

[Kobold Stew]

That actually seems right. Good reading.

 

[Abstruse]

BTW, I've tweeted Mike Mearls seeing if he has a clarification. My reading on it is that most of the rest of this thread is going way overboard with analyzing every word choice, which is against the spirit of this edition. My read is that a thrown weapon is treated as a ranged weapon, so you can use Sneak Attack. Doing a specific reading the way many people here are doing also excludes sneak attacks by thrown daggers, which is against theme for Rogues.

Frankly, I'd rather have The Hatchet Gang from Kung Fu Hustle as a thieves guild in my game than take away the rogue throwing a dagger from his hiding spot.

 

[Umbran]

For me, specifically the section on pg9, reads as "Ranged attacks use Dex, but watch out some thrown attacks, like a handaxe for example, might use strength instead."

That's certainly one valid interpretation. But, the other argument is that if they had wanted to say that, they'd have said it.

My personal take on it is... I don't care. I don't think the game will be broken by allowing sneak attacks with largish thrown weapons that are hard to carry around in bulk.

 

[obsid]

Looks like he responded twitter.com/mikemearls/status/485910280254541824 (wont let me post a link)

ETallitnics: Good day Mr. Mearls! Does the Thrown property satisfy the Rogue's Sneak Attack requirement of Ranged Weapon? #Thanks

mikemearls: Yes, at least that is the intent, both for melee and ranged sneak attacks.


So it looks like you can even use the handaxe in melee and sneak attack with it (at least as the designers understood it, your DM may vary). This does change many potential rogue builds.

 

[Shiroiken]

BTW, I've tweeted Mike Mearls seeing if he has a clarification. My reading on it is that most of the rest of this thread is going way overboard with analyzing every word choice, which is against the spirit of this edition. My read is that a thrown weapon is treated as a ranged weapon, so you can use Sneak Attack. Doing a specific reading the way many people here are doing also excludes sneak attacks by thrown daggers, which is against theme for Rogues.

Frankly, I'd rather have The Hatchet Gang from Kung Fu Hustle as a thieves guild in my game than take away the rogue throwing a dagger from his hiding spot.

The Dagger still meets the requirement of being a Finesse Weapon, so you can Sneak Attack with it in melee or ranged.

As to Mearl's tweet, it's not like he hasn't been wrong on designer intent before...

 

[BryonD]

That is *can* use, not *must* use.

This is at odds with the definition of the Thrown property, on page 46.

Yeah, clearly a wording issue there.

It may be that they actually mean "can" in the sense that "it might", rather than "the player can select". It would make the two statements consistent. Though it requires a counter-intuitive reading of the wording. Unfortunately, the Thrown property seems quite explicit. Which is a shame. Seems to restrict excessively.

 

[Abstruse]

The Dagger still meets the requirement of being a Finesse Weapon, so you can Sneak Attack with it in melee or ranged.

As to Mearl's tweet, it's not like he hasn't been wrong on designer intent before...

Considering he's the lead designer, I'm going to trust Word of God on this one over nitpicking of word choice, something this edition as a design paradigm is strictly against.

 

[Umbran]

Considering he's the lead designer, I'm going to trust Word of God on this one over nitpicking of word choice, something this edition as a design paradigm is strictly against.

That was part of the reason I said I didn't actually care. Because, really, is sneak attack with a thrown hand axe going to break anything? Is nipicking really called for, for this one case?

 

[E. Tallitnics]

Looks like he responded twitter.com/mikemearls/status/485910280254541824 (wont let me post a link)

ETallitnics: Good day Mr. Mearls! Does the Thrown property satisfy the Rogue's Sneak Attack requirement of Ranged Weapon? #Thanks

mikemearls: Yes, at least that is the intent, both for melee and ranged sneak attacks.


So it looks like you can even use the handaxe in melee and sneak attack with it (at least as the designers understood it, your DM may vary). This does change many potential rogue builds.

Thanks!