Sneak attack?

[Mojo Jojo]

Is there any limit to the ammount of sneak attacks a rogue can get?
For example in my party we have a rogue with expert tactician, it is not unusual for him to get 2 sneak attacks in the surprise round and then 5 more when he usually wins initiative. That is a ton of damage that not much can withstand. Are we doing something wrong?

 

[mikebr99]

Is there any limit to the ammount of sneak attacks a rogue can get?
For example in my party we have a rogue with expert tactician, it is not unusual for him to get 2 sneak attacks in the surprise round and then 5 more when he usually wins initiative. That is a ton of damage that not much can withstand. Are we doing something wrong?

No limit that I have ever seen...

This "problem" (if it is one...) seems to rest on the DMs shoulders... by continuously throwing unaware, critical susceptible creatures at your group. YMMV...


Mike

 

[Keith]

A member of your party is making a good contribution to killing your opponents quickly, and you are worried about doing something wrong?! Are other players jealous? Or, really, are you the DM complaining about an effective character?
Seriously, the rogue can sneak attack as many times as their attacks meet the criteria for sneak attacks. Keep in mind that they never get extra attacks by sneaking, so this is only about how good the attacks are. Other characters can do plenty of damage, too (weapon specialization, fireball, whatever), and this is the way that rogues get to contribute to combat. They often have to put themselves in positions that are very dangerous for them, given their armor, in order to do it, too. And they go up entire class levels just to do a little more damage in those limited situations. So, all in all, don’t begrudge them their success, I say.

Cheers

 

[Mojo Jojo]

I figured as much.
And I dont feel I begrudge him his moment in the sun. I am however a fairly inexperieced DM and it seemed slightly unbalanced him doing so much damage with out the poor beastie being able to even bat an eyelash. So I figured I would ask the experts.
Thanks guys

 

[Winternight]

Bring some undeads, constructs and oozes or other immune to critical ( and therefor to sneak) damage.
But not only.
And attack the group with one assasin.
But don`t overdo it.

 

[Magic Slim]

I figured as much.
And I dont feel I begrudge him his moment in the sun. I am however a fairly inexperieced DM and it seemed slightly unbalanced him doing so much damage with out the poor beastie being able to even bat an eyelash. So I figured I would ask the experts.
Thanks guys

Well, The rogue can get a sneak attack in the surprise round, and then maybe another if he beats his opponent's initiative on the first real round. After that, he'll have to rely on flanking (which no intelligent opponent should let him do), feinting in combat (unless he has special feats, he won't be able to do it every round), or magical aid (invisibility et al).

Perhaps, in your inexperience, you let him sneak attack when he shouldn't have?

Also, while rogues will have a high dex, they'll probably won't have that good an AC, and low HP (relatively), so if they get into melee, they can get hurt real bad real quick...

Slim

 

[FrankTrollman]

After that, he'll have to rely on flanking (which no intelligent opponent should let him do)

That is probably the strangest assertion I have ever heard.

The reality of the D&D initiative system is that it is impossible to keep people from flanking you if you engage in melee at all.

When an opponent acts, both the party Fighter and the Party Rogue will act before that opponent acts again. Maybe it will happen next round, or this round, but it doesn't make any difference because between delay and refocus, the Rogue and Fighter can choose to act in either order - and still go before that opponent acts again.

During their action, both the Fighter and the Rogue can move, and after moving - they can be an opposite sides of the opponent. Mix in tumble and there is absolutely nothing that a meleeing opponent without Uncanny Dodge can do to stop a flank.

And of course, once the opponent is flanked, there is no direction it can take a 5' step that the Fighter and Rogue can't match by simply taking a 5' step in the same direction, delaying action until the other has the opportunity to take the 5' step, and then maintaining the Flank while continuing to attack.

Now, if your assertion is in fact that no intelligent creature is going to get into melee at all - that's a whole different argument (and one which I kind of agree with - melee is dangerous and should be avoided).

-Frank

 

[Larcen]

That is probably the strangest assertion I have ever heard. ...

Maybe he meant by backing away and/or positioning himself in a corner or wall? Even so, might still be difficult to prevent the flank though.

 

[Darklone]

Maybe he meant by backing away and/or positioning himself in a corner or wall? Even so, might still be difficult to prevent the flank though.

I like to use a lot of mooks against my players (level 2-6 is common for NPCs in my world). Use them in tight combat formations (susceptible to spells) and no flanking will occur.

Example: First row longspear wielders, second row dudes with tower shields and the Guardian feat (Kalamar PG). Let the spear wielders aid each other... IME the fifth trip/disarm/grapple attack against your superstrong uberbarbarian on average succeeds

 

[Snipehunt]

That is probably the strangest assertion I have ever heard.
-Frank

You can't eliminate flanking, but you can limit the effects of flanking quite a bit, by moving so that the rogue only gets standard actions. Also, if you time the moves right, it doesn't matter that both opponents go before the BBEG i.e. -

rnd. 1
xxxxx
xxRxx
xxAxx
xxFxx
xxxxx

rnd 2 (5' step for A)
xxxxx
xxRxx
xxxxx
xxFAx
xxxxx

If the fighter moves first, no flanking is possible for the fighter. If the rogue moves first, then it is. But the rogue can only get a standard action. And unless the fighter has spring attack, ithe fighter can't move so as to let the Rogue take a 5' step and flank w/o provoking an AoO.

If the rogue moves first, move next to the Rogue! No flanking possible for the rogue.