So a 2nd level Dragonborn Warden walks down the street... and does 613 damage?

[DracoSuave]

When your defender is spending time and character optimization dealing with minions, your wizard facepalms and dies a little inside.

Also on the outside while the real threats attack him cause of a defender that forgot what his job is.

 

[ourchair]

<off-topic>
I have a player in my group who always rolls damage, even on minions. I try to interrupt his roll with "Don't bother, it's a freakin' minion!" but no, he still rolls every time.

On the plus side, at least we've adopted the one-damage-roll rule. So, against 25 minions, he would only roll damage once and then make all the attack rolls.
</off-topic>

We've been playing for three weeks now, and none of the players, save me, knows what a minion is.*

This INCLUDES the guy who owns the group's only copy of 4e core books for over a year now.

*I haven't explained the minions to them because a) I help plan the adventures somewhat as the DM is my girlfriend and b) the DM doesn't want me to

 

[radja]

just let him roll for damage. doing damage is a feel-good moment. hit == kill is boring.

 

[vagabundo]

We've been playing for three weeks now, and none of the players, save me, knows what a minion is.*

This INCLUDES the guy who owns the group's only copy of 4e core books for over a year now.

*I haven't explained the minions to them because a) I help plan the adventures somewhat as the DM is my girlfriend and b) the DM doesn't want me to

I started with this, but I finally figured out that it is better to have rules transparency, even with monster defenses. Now I wont allow them to look at my stats or notes afterward. I thought rule/stat opacity would enhance the mystery, but once I let go I found my game ran smoother and quicker and my players actually seemed more interested.

I use the story, plots and hooks to add mystery now - it seems to work better.

Oh and the Tougher Minion rules really rock my world in play. I think I would have preferred if they were the official rules.

 

[ourchair]

I started with this, but I finally figured out that it is better to have rules transparency, even with monster defenses. Now I wont allow them to look at my stats or notes afterward. I thought rule/stat opacity would enhance the mystery, but once I let go I found my game ran smoother and quicker and my players actually seemed more interested.

I concur with this.

I'd never hide any of the rules, and am completely of the school of explaining all the critical nuances of certain rules. The minion rule seems to be the only thing that doesn't come up and my DM prefers it that way. That said, transparency is the best way to run the game IMHO.

Still it seems like the fun is being enhanced so far making them feel more powerful. The lack of knowledge on this matter is kind of relative between players though. The owner of the books is completely oblivious, even though he's using a familiar and that has the hit point mechanics of a minion. The other guy is pretty aware, but he doesn't break character and it isn't an issue. The last guy, doesn't really study the rules at all, focusing only on what's relevant to playing his character (and does it really well).

 

[WampusCat43]

Agreed. Still, stuff like this is the favorite pastime of your typical CO board visitor.

It's good for a chuckle from time to time.

I keep picturing the scene from the end of Animal House, where the band is stacked up at the end of the alley, still marching.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I am fully expecting an errata change, I dont want to call this combo broken but I cant imagine them intending 5 ongoing damage to potentially 25 mobs every round until the encounter ends. Thanks again though for your clarification notes. By the way, is there a page number or a more clarified text for it marking minions on miss? my dm is insisting that if you miss a minion that nothing happens; no effects, no damage.

Your combo is far from broken. I don't think it rises above moderately effective. I mean IF you hit every target with everything, you do a grand total of 25 points of damage to each one (on average, but none of them are taking enough to even bloody them). Strikers do that sort of damage with at-will attacks.

 

[Zustiur]

Ah, I've been waiting for a thread just like this.
I found a combination I thought was a tad over powered... With enough time (and splat books) I believe it will be possible to do one million damage in a single round.
DISCLAIMER 1 - There are flaws with this plan, and I have identified many of them. Please read my whole post before telling me my plan won't work.
DISCLAIMER 2 - I'm only interested in potential damage, not in likelihood or actual chances.

It goes like this:
The power is level 27 ranger attack power ‘Hail of Arrows’.
Target: Each enemy in range.
Range of greatbow 25/50
So with one enemy in every square, for 50 squares in every direction. That’s a square of 101x101. -1 square at the center for the ranger to stand in. = 10200 targets.
Assuming critical hits on every roll (HAH!). Max damage is (12+25+36)*10200+24.
That is: d12 (12) + dex (10), magic bow (6), weapon focus (3), Bracers of archery (6) + 6d6 (36) for a critical * targets... plus 24 for hunter’s quarry done to a single target (3d8 at that level).

Unfortunately ...
a) No army marches in formation 101 by 101 or larger
b) I wouldn’t roll that many 20s
c) Even if I did roll that many 20s, there’s no way I’d roll max damage on the bonus from critical hits
d) No one can carry that many arrows. 1020 pounds of arrows + 5 pounds for the bow, requiring a character with 103 strength.
e) For that many targets, at level 30... they’d probably all be minions, thus invalidating the damage anyway.

Not quite a million damage in one round, but he could do it again after 5 minutes rest

So, have I missed any flaws? And have I missed any ways of increasing the damage?


Edit: I just realized one very obvious improvement:
Perfect Hunter's Weapon gives d12 crit damage
Therefore, it now looks like this:
d12 = 12
Dex = 10
Enhancement = 6
Weapon focus = 3
Bracers of Archery = 6
Subtotal = 37

Crit damage 6d12 = 72
Subtotal = 109

Targets 10200 * 109 damage each = 1111800

Plus 3d8 = 24 damage to one target which is the quarry.

Grand total 1,111,824 damage.

Epic or broken? You decide.