D&D General So how do Half-Elfs feel different to Elfs?

[Yaarel]

The actual text is


Not "on average" not "typically". "Can live to be 750." Not a lot of wiggle room there, even with the change from a stat block in 5e14 to narrative text. A change mainly so they could save page count in 5e24.

As I said, I am quoting 5e 2024. The text says what I said it says, page 189. The Elves "live for around 750 years", in contrast that "most species live for about 80 years" (page 177). Just like we can expect individual Humans to live to be 110 and more (and in D&D much more), we can expect elven individuals to be 1100, and much more.

None of the races use the exact same language, being moved out of a stat block.

• Halfling "robust life spans (about 150 years)."
• gnome "who live around 425 years."
• dwarf "with a life span of about 350 years."[/i]

In a technical sense, the elven one is the only hard ceiling. The others have vaguer language. But I guess when you can live to 750 years old, the wiggle room would be much larger if it was "around 750yro". As it is you could see an exceptional gnome living to 500, which is around 425.

At these ages, epic levels are a game changer.

If the Forgotten Realms lore fan sites are correct, Tasha is a Human who lived for centuries, and then became truly immortal by becoming an archfey.

But the point is, individuals are exceptions, especially when it comes to something like lifespan estimations. Elves typically live many centuries (before dying of various causes), and there are individuals that live many millennia and are still as youthful as 20.

Maybe its a side effect of the curse that removed their shape-shifting abilities long, long before they arrived on the mortal planes. And now they are just mortals.

Elves are not mortals. Even if their body is killed, their trancing soul remains connecting to past and future bodies. They sustain their bodies magically, perhaps a residual of their origins of shapeshifting at will. (Elves being shapeshifters comes from reallife folkbeliefs.) The species involves more than biology. They are magic itself and continue to transmit their
magical Fey heritage.

Reduced to "fey ancestry", their connection so weak that defenses that stop actual Fey have no effect, just like tieflings and aasimar can walk through wards against Celetials and Fiends.

The Fey ancestral magic remains as strong as strong as ever, while a Material Plane body overlaps it.

I view the Humanoid "soul" as mystically entangling every aspect of the multiverse. Hence, Humanoids can obviate wards that target any particular plane.

That Elves have a Humanoid soul seems notable. Perhaps when taking a Human form the soul came with it. And now being trapped as a soul is in some ways part of their curse: Human souls come with free will and ethical consequences.

The trance trait is a D&Dism (not from reallife folkbeliefs), but I dont hate it. It is a gaming way to signify the persistence of their otherworldly nonmaterial nonhuman magical nature despite their choice to adopt a Human shape.

 

[DEFCON 1]

With all the comments I've made thus far, I feel like I should clarify something that I hadn't bothered to bring up since the discussion was purely about half-elves and elves. My distaste for the half-elf and the half-orc as fully written-up PHB species are two-fold... first of course is the naming convention, like many other people have talked about (I think anyone naming themselves or others "half" anything is ridiculous, especially when the human side gets to be the one used as the "default"). Drow have a name for their species/sub-species... human/elf mixed heritage should have one as well that isn't "Half" (and why I'm mostly okay with the Khoravar from Eberron because at least there's an attempt in that setting to be a little more cosmopolitan about it.)

And second... I just hate that all the talk about needing these mixed heritages getting a full write-up and stats in the PHB is always because it's only about these two specifically. I feel these two species do not deserve to be the only mixed heritages in the PHB-- especially considering one of them came about fluffed directly as a result of sexual assault for pete's sake! That's just utter B.S. To think we're okay with just ignoring the children of say gnome and halfling parents, or dwarf and elf parents, or orc and goblin parents when it comes to write-ups and species features, while simultaneously demanding human/elf and human/orc parentage be given all the bells and whistles as they always have. To me, that's also ridiculous.

I'd actually be perfectly okay if the PHB had a write-up in the Species chapter that actually gave players the opportunity to mechanically create a mixed species character from the parents of two differing species. If they did that... gave us a method for creating a write-up for a child of tiefling/dragonborn parents amongst all the others... then I'd be all for that. It's just the isolating of these two and only these two specific ones (the half-orc and half-elf) that make me glad they got removed from 5E24. I'm All-or-nothing in my opinion-- either let people make any mixed species character they want mechanically... or do what they have done in the new book and print none of it... just have people have it as part of their background and history of their character and just roleplay it.

 

[Yaarel]

This isn't the case. You are thinking like a human, not a race that can wait 70 years to see if a tree puts out an albino fruit just because it's curious. Long lived races aren't pressured to get stuff done right now like humans, halflings, etc. are. That 100 year old elf might not even have a class yet.

I view the implications of lifespans differently.

A person who doesnt have long to live can feel like nothing matters, everything turns to dust, and then make a point to enjoy the fleeting moments of life, while accomplishing little.

Oppositely, a person who is confident anout living for centuries knows they will be around for the fruits of their labor, and have the motivation to work hard and strive to achieve great ambitions.

 

[Charlaquin]

With all the comments I've made thus far, I feel like I should clarify something that I hadn't bothered to bring up since the discussion was purely about half-elves and elves. My distaste for the half-elf and the half-orc as fully written-up PHB species are two-fold... first of course is the naming convention, like many other people have talked about (I think anyone naming themselves or others "half" anything is ridiculous, especially when the human side gets to be the one used as the "default"). Drow have a name for their species/sub-species... human/elf mixed heritage should have one as well that isn't "Half" (and why I'm mostly okay with the Khoravar from Eberron because at least there's an attempt in that setting to be a little more cosmopolitan about it.)

And second... I just hate that all the talk about needing these mixed heritages getting a full write-up and stats in the PHB is always because it's only about these two specifically. I feel these two species do not deserve to be the only mixed heritages in the PHB-- especially considering one of them came about fluffed directly as a result of sexual assault for pete's sake! That's just utter B.S. To think we're okay with just ignoring the children of say gnome and halfling parents, or dwarf and elf parents, or orc and goblin parents when it comes to write-ups and species features, while simultaneously demanding human/elf and human/orc parentage be given all the bells and whistles as they always have. To me, that's also ridiculous.

I'd actually be perfectly okay if the PHB had a write-up in the Species chapter that actually gave players the opportunity to mechanically create a mixed species character from the parents of two differing species. If they did that... gave us a method for creating a write-up for a child of tiefling/dragonborn parents amongst all the others... then I'd be all for that. It's just the isolating of these two and only these two specific ones (the half-orc and half-elf) that make me glad they got removed from 5E24. I'm All-or-nothing in my opinion-- either let people make any mixed species character they want mechanically... or do what they have done in the new book and print none of it... just have people have it as part of their background and history of their character and just roleplay it.

I actually agree with you about all of this. Calling mixed species “half-whatever,” and assuming the other half is always human, as well as privileging human/elf and human/orc combinations over other mixes has always been dumb, and I’m sure are why they got cut from the PHB. But, mixed-“species” people have long been and continue to be a part of D&D. The “pick one side’s set of stats and describe your appearance how you like” option is fine as one option for how to express mixed heritage, but it’s not great as the only option. It’s kind of crazy to me that the 2024 PHB didn’t include Tasha’s custom species rules and call them out as an option for making mixed characters. Although what I’d like even better is if they converted Xanathar’s species feats to 2024 as Origin feats, and removed the species prerequisite. So if you wanted to be a half gnome half Goliath or whatever, you could just take one as your species and take the origin feat associated with the other.

 

[TwoSix]

And second... I just hate that all the talk about needing these mixed heritages getting a full write-up and stats in the PHB is always because it's only about these two specifically. I feel these two species do not deserve to be the only mixed heritages in the PHB-- especially considering one of them came about fluffed directly as a result of sexual assault for pete's sake! That's just utter B.S. To think we're okay with just ignoring the children of say gnome and halfling parents, or dwarf and elf parents, or orc and goblin parents when it comes to write-ups and species features, while simultaneously demanding human/elf and human/orc parentage be given all the bells and whistles as they always have. To me, that's also ridiculous.

I think that's an interesting question. Does the presence of the half-elf/half-orc give tacit permission for the players to assume other mixed heritage individuals exist, or does it create a mental restriction (if those other mixed heritages did exist, they would be detailed?)

In my own campaigns, characters of mixed heritage are prevalent to the point of being a plurality in most civilized and cosmopolitan areas, but I know plenty of players whose default is a more Tolkienish "every ancestry with its own identity and place".

 

[TwoSix]

I actually agree with you about all of this. Calling mixed species “half-whatever,” and assuming the other half is always human, as well as privileging human/elf and human/orc combinations over other mixes has always been dumb, and I’m sure are why they got cut from the PHB. But, mixed-“species” people have long been and continue to be a part of D&D. The “pick one side’s set of stats and describe your appearance how you like” option is fine as one option for how to express mixed heritage, but it’s not great as the only option. It’s kind of crazy to me that the 2024 PHB didn’t include Tasha’s custom species rules and call them out as an option for making mixed characters. Although what I’d like even better is if they converted Xanathar’s species feats to 2024 as Origin feats, and removed the species prerequisite. So if you wanted to be a half gnome half Goliath or whatever, you could just take one as your species and take the origin feat associated with the other.

I like that. I would prefer to leave the worldbuilding assumptions in the hands of the specific group, not the game as a whole.

Mixed heritage can be carried by narration, reskinning, and mechanical weight in whatever ratio the player deems best for their concept.

 

[AnotherGuy]

We don't need "a people" to have a playable race though.

That is a different conversation (for us).
I like @DEFCON 1's approach somewhere upthread where they mentioned one can pick two human traits and two elven traits and there you go. Personally I think a write-up would also be nice on the half-races in general where ideas could be presented on whether the setting has communities of these people due to abc or if they are indeed a rarity and what themes and stories could be explored.
I think that would be helpful for both the GM and the players.

EDIT: What I'm thinking is a page on mixed races with some general ideas and then sub-headings (half-orc, half-elf...etc) providing more specific details but in terms of roleplaying and physical descriptions not necessarily mechanics.
The mechanics would be you as a player pick x traits between the two races. Simple.

EDIT: Just read @TwoSix 's post above mine. Ninja'd.

 

[Yaarel]

To deconstrust the traits of all playable species in order to recombine them as individual characters, and then to supply setting narrative contexts for at least some of the very many possible permutations, is so much information. It would have to at least be its own splatbook, and even then many permutations would be left out and ignored.

For gaming purposes to simply pick either parent for the stats is a reasonable design choice. To have detailed cultural backgrounds would be highly setting specific.

Perhaps a list of origin feats to nod toward the other parent is doable for each species, but it would often be the case that a particular trait that a player wants from the other species would be absent from the official feats.

To focus on the narrative implications of a multispecies character is always the best solution, whether or not a future splatbook decides to wade into the game design mess.

 

[AnotherGuy]

To focus on the narrative implications of a multispecies character is always the best solution, whether or not a future splatbook decides to wade into the game design mess.

That's what I suggested under the mixed-race subheadings - purely roleplaying and physical descriptions, not mechanics.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm surprised nobody made a comparison between Half-Elves and Spock in the thread so far (though the gist of the idea was mentioned already on the first page I think): Much like how Spock is half-Vulcan and half-Human, and that allows him to still be relatable but sufficiently alien, half-elves are a good half-way between playing a full-on "inhuman" Elf and a generic human, especially for people just getting into fantasy as a genre. I think similarly it's no surprise that the POV character in the original Dragonlance novels was Tanis Half-Elven for most of the time. Though I think this trend is falling with newer fantasy works openly embracing different archetypes, so new people who get into fantasy are more okay with immediately adopting the POV of more "otherworldly" characters.

The thought crossed my mind, but I will admit the "half-human POV" character is an overdone trope because it assumes we can't connect or relate to a creature who is, at least partially, human.

As much as I am a huge fan of the 8th Doctor, I'm so glad they ignored the half-human revelation from the TV movie for that reason. The Doctor is weird and alien but also relatable and doesn't need to be human on his mother's side to explain his fascination with humans. (Honestly, the Doctor is a good example of how an elf, a creature who walks in eternity, can relate to something as short lived as a human. Even falling in love with several of them over his lifetime.)