So, how many are avoiding Essentials?

[Aegeri]

You're not the only one.

There is some irony though, because everyone (including myself) whines that Dragon sucks and isn't publishing worthwhile things. When they do publish something pretty great in it everyone complains that it should have been in a book.

Truly delicious.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I get that.

My issue is sliiiightly different- I just have zero desire for electronic media as a consumer (beyond buying software, of course). Pretty much every PDF I've won or was gifted, all that "Bonus Web Content!", and downloadable extra songs I'd get for just entering a code at some website are unclaimed.

Ah, well- maybe those other classes will show up in a (physical, professionally printed) Dragon annual of some kind.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Thanks for the info!


This pisses me off.

It annoys me too. But that is how WOTC is selling 4E. I would prefer that all the base classes be in books, but they are not gonna be, so I'll just live with it.

It is odd that 6 months ago, I was using probably 80% of content (no FR or E) but that percentage is dropping fast. It is probably 50% now or a bit less.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You're not the only one.

There is some irony though, because everyone (including myself) whines that Dragon sucks and isn't publishing worthwhile things. When they do publish something pretty great in it everyone complains that it should have been in a book.

Truly delicious.

I don't. I think the material in Dragon has been for the most part quite high quality. FAR FAR higher quality in the 4e days as far as rules stuff goes than it ever was in any previous time period. It is also FAR cheaper in real terms. Honestly, 95% of the Dragon stuff has proven to be just as usable and well thought out as the stuff in physical book form. Where it hasn't it has been hit with errata just like everything else. The nice part about it being there's no book you have to markup, just D/L a new copy of that issue and you have it all. MOST of that stuff doesn't even make it into the errata documents as they always provide a finalized version of each issue within a month or so.

There's really nothing WotC can do or needs to do about some people's absolute hatred of digital media. You can keep buying lots of the physical stuff and that will encourage them to focus on it as a good revenue stream, or not. Happy customers makes a good business but a good business also goes where the market is. If it is better for most of us to have PDFs and whatnot then that's where it will go and nobody needs to get pissed off about it. You either make do with what you can get or find it somewhere else if WotC can't or won't supply it.

Personally I never found Dragon/Dungeon to be the big draw of DDI anyway. There are certainly times when I have cribbed material from them and some of the articles have been quite interesting on things like GMing issues and world building, but the adventures are pretty forgettable. The class and race stuff is usually fine, but I rarely bother to do more than skim it. The stuff will show in Compendium/CB anyway and that's what I use. I think the stuff I've liked the most were articles on mythology and monsters, items, etc. That stuff I can usually at least mine for ideas.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Dragon has some good articles. I'm a big lover of the race stuff -- Abyssal Genasi are kickbutt!

I can imagine that Dungeon will have some good articles once they focus on "DM Stuff In General" and less on a mediocre adventure or two.

But the DDI is hemorrhaging value regardless. Dungeon and Dragon are nice additions, but probably not something worth a subscription on their own.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

To me, basic additions to the game should be made available to your whole market, not just to those in "The Platinum Club."

Sure, give your DDI subscribers early access, but there's a bunch of us just waiting to buy the next book.

 

[DMZ2112]

I have an honest question:

Why _isn't_ Essentials a replacement for pre-existing D&D4? Or to put it another way, is it really designed to exist in tandem with "core" D&D4 materials?

Will Wizards continue to print the PHBs, MMs, and DMGs? Will they continue to publish the Powers books? Will there be future books in these series, or will they be superseded by their Essentials counterparts? Do we know these things?

I had assumed that Essentials was a complete overhaul of D&D marketing (and to a lesser extent, design), as the combination of HotFL/FK and three PHBs is redundant and confusing. I had further assumed that Heroes books would replace PHBs and Powers books going forward, and that MV supplements would be replacing MMs.

To that extent I kind of understand the original poster's point; if one does not like the format or theory of the Essentials books, one is kind of hosed. It's much like not being fond of the Delve format that was introduced late in D&D3.5. As far as purchasing new books is concerned, anyone who does not like Essentials is not going to have attractive future options.

Or am I completely missing something?

 

[Henry]

My gaming group is currently playing 4E Dark Sun, with nary a word of Essentials in sight, but speaking as someone who has played a couple of Essentials characters, I love them and the way they work, and have no problem with them. The main reason our group doesn't play it is because I and another player intro'ed them to 4E prior to the release of Essentials, and they are so far enjoying what they're being exposed to. For some it's not quite as "crunchy" as they usually prefer, but they're enjoying the story and interactions all the same.

 

[Scribble]

I have an honest question:

Why _isn't_ Essentials a replacement for pre-existing D&D4? Or to put it another way, is it really designed to exist in tandem with "core" D&D4 materials?

It's designed to work in tandem. (But see below)

Will Wizards continue to print the PHBs, MMs, and DMGs? Will they continue to publish the Powers books? Will there be future books in these series, or will they be superseded by their Essentials counterparts? Do we know these things?

The official word was "as needed," so make of that as you will.

I had assumed that Essentials was a complete overhaul of D&D marketing (and to a lesser extent, design), as the combination of HotFL/FK and three PHBs is redundant and confusing. I had further assumed that Heroes books would replace PHBs and Powers books going forward, and that MV supplements would be replacing MMs.

Sort of- but not really.

The classes and the majority of the rules introduced in the original books will continue forward, as part of the game- they aren't replaced by the essentials stuff. Essentials stuff just adds to it.

The format IE hardback books, and interior layout of the books is changing it seems, although if this is permanent no one knows. (It seems that way...)

The classes originally intro'd in the first books are also apparently being re-released in the new format (not new rules, just layout) so if you want an all essentials styled look, you can get that book(s.)


I think really it's only confusing if you're trying to look at it as two separate lines. If not, just buy some books and go have fun.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I have an honest question:

Why _isn't_ Essentials a replacement for pre-existing D&D4? Or to put it another way, is it really designed to exist in tandem with "core" D&D4 materials?

Will Wizards continue to print the PHBs, MMs, and DMGs? Will they continue to publish the Powers books? Will there be future books in these series, or will they be superseded by their Essentials counterparts? Do we know these things?

I had assumed that Essentials was a complete overhaul of D&D marketing (and to a lesser extent, design), as the combination of HotFL/FK and three PHBs is redundant and confusing. I had further assumed that Heroes books would replace PHBs and Powers books going forward, and that MV supplements would be replacing MMs.

To that extent I kind of understand the original poster's point; if one does not like the format or theory of the Essentials books, one is kind of hosed. It's much like not being fond of the Delve format that was introduced late in D&D3.5. As far as purchasing new books is concerned, anyone who does not like Essentials is not going to have attractive future options.

Or am I completely missing something?

It would appear that the large size hardcover book format which has been pretty much the standard since the late 70's for most D&D rule books is at an end. Some people will like that, some people will hate that. Of course they could reverse course and go back to it but I doubt that will happen right away. They're trying a new physical book format, obviously one that is less expensive.

As far as the rules go, Essentials simply isn't a replacement. Beyond the fact that some PHB1/2 classes are getting a reprint soon in the new format there is certainly a lot of ground in terms of class design that Essentials simply doesn't touch that 4e 'classic' does. Maybe the new classes will replace the old ones for some groups, maybe not for others. I don't think the old stuff is going to become unplayable any time soon.

There's a lot of difference too between what is currently on the shelves and what people are currently playing with. I would venture to guess if you go into most games with your old-style bow ranger at any point in the next several years anyone is going to be especially surprised, shocked, or disturbed by that even if it isn't the obvious choice they would make themselves. It will certainly continue to work flawlessly.

On bookstore shelves? Sure, the new stuff is likely to be the main stuff that is stocked. I doubt that means it is going to get hard to find the existing books. They're still all available as new stock online and I'd be willing to bet it will be at least a couple years before you will have any problem finding a copy of say Martial Power if you want one. It will be of less use to a person playing nothing but Essentials characters, but anyone that needs the 4e classic stuff will manage to get hold of it.