D&D 5E So, I have been out of town for a few weeks, did I miss something?

[Remathilis]

Well, from my point of view OD&D and the various Basic Editions don't count (the latter were released in parallel to the 'advanced d&D' line).

3.5 isn't a new edition, especially considering it was originally intended to be just an update with some errata, similar to the second release of the 2e books (which were only different from the first version in artwork and layout, iirc). Also you didn't include 4e Essentials which included more changes than between 3.0 and 3.5.

So, for me, the cleaned-up graph looks like this:

1e - 2e: 12 years
2e - 3e: 11 years
3e - 4e: 8 years
4e - 5e: 6 years

Now, _this_ graph shows a clear trend. My guess: 6th edition to be released in 2018, maybe even 2017. They'll probably start working on it as early as next year...

All it shows me is that 3e was cut short to make room for 4e and it's money - printing scheme that failed 4 years later. I see no indicator that 5e will last any less time than 3e at minimum and if it doesn't, there won't be a 6th edition to take it's place.

 

[TerraDave]

Editions, there have been a few.

1E is very much a different edition then OD&D, lots of changes, and OD&D is, well, quite an "odd" thing, actually.

2E is a different edition then 1E in part because they actually called it a second edition. Their term. And did totally rewrite and change all sorts of little and not so little thing. As noted, it led to quite viscous edition warring that could flare up years after the fact (as 1E rocks the flavor and avoids the bloat whereas 2E has some of the blandest core rules and led to a junkyard...).

Holmes basic is really its own, yes, odd, thing.

Moldvay cook is also its own, great clarifying edition of the rules. Mentzer, basically B.5, came too soon. Too soon. There is a lot of overlap, but people tended to move from B/X to BECMI/RC.

(Now, its true, you could use a B module with either B, or AD&D or OD&D. Of course, you could also use them with 3E with a little work, and (I certainly hope) with 5E with not too much work.)

2.5/Players options just about replaced the core rule books. I am pretty sure you could just about play without the PHB if you were doing a full 2.5 game. It was not marketed as such, and they still wanted you to buy the PHB and the other books. They did replace the monstrous compendium at this time, with the best MM ever. If you were a DM, you had to buy that book.

3E, obviously a new edition. Though with more 1e/2e detail then is sometimes appreciated.

3.5 was marketed as 3.5. With new core books that just did not tweak things but did more then that. And people thought it was not compatible. They where probably worse about this using B adventures with AD&D.

4E, yes, the biggest change of all. Or at least the hardest to mix and match with past stuff. It could be done, but with a fair amount of work.

4E essentials. Did some of us rant and rave on these boards about this really was a new edition, even as the WoTCs denied it. Yes, yes we did. You could buy and use 4EE products without any of the 4E "core books". And honestly, there would be no reason to get a DMG or MM after they came out. (or arguably before they came out). The PHB actually retained a lot of good options, as long as you had the dozens of pages of errata. Of course, we were all using DDI at that point so the books didn't matter. Which DDI you used could matter, on the other hand...

I like to thing that the 5E books that are coming out will be the ultimate edition. At least for me.

 

[TerraDave]

All it shows me is that 3e was cut short to make room for 4e ...

Actually it was cut short to make way for 3.5...

 

[Remathilis]

2E is a different edition then 1E in part because they actually called it a second edition. Their term. And did totally rewrite and change all sorts of little and not so little thing. As noted, it led to quite viscous edition warring that could flare up years after the fact (as 1E rocks the flavor and avoids the bloat whereas 2E has some of the blandest core rules and led to a junkyard...).

2.5/Players options just about replaced the core rule books. I am pretty sure you could just about play without the PHB if you were doing a full 2.5 game. It was not marketed as such, and they still wanted you to buy the PHB and the other books. They did replace the monstrous compendium at this time, with the best MM ever. If you were a DM, you had to buy that book.

These two sections show me you have little experience with 2e.

First: 1e avoids bloat? Did I fever-dream Unearthed Arcana?

Second: 2e is bland? My Al-qadim, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft books are all hanging their head in shame.

Third: PO could NOT replace the 2e Core books. Yes, they gave an alternate chargen, combat and magic systems, but they were a) optional, b) not interdependent and could mix and match, and c) never referenced beyond Gates of Firestorm Peak or an occasional Dragon article. Additionally, try playing with just the PO books and no PHB/DMG/MM, you'll find lots of missing parts (spells and magic items to start).

Was it a big change? Yes. Was it really 2.5? No, unless Tome of Battle was 3.75 or UA was 1.5. It was a series of optional rules that influenced 3e, but no where near a half edition like 3.5.

 

[TerraDave]

These two sections show me you have little experience with 2e.

And this statement shows that you can be so factually wrong...to the point of such extreme irony...that you must be posting on the internet.

And the fact that you pretend to remember so well 20 years ago would lead me to believe that you had little experience with 2E.

First: 1e avoids bloat? Did I fever-dream Unearthed Arcana?

Second: 2e is bland? My Al-qadim, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft books are all hanging their head in shame.

Third: PO could NOT replace the 2e Core books. Yes, they gave an alternate chargen, combat and magic systems, but they were a) optional, b) not interdependent and could mix and match, and c) never referenced beyond Gates of Firestorm Peak or an occasional Dragon article. Additionally, try playing with just the PO books and no PHB/DMG/MM, you'll find lots of missing parts (spells and magic items to start).

Was it a big change? Yes. Was it really 2.5? No, unless Tome of Battle was 3.75 or UA was 1.5. It was a series of optional rules that influenced 3e, but no where near a half edition like 3.5.

I am just going to assume you bit on the edition war thing on purpose and ignore it, as you prove the point. (Though I did say "core rules" bland)

Of course you needed the MM, which was part of the same wave of books! Spells and magic only had new spells, its true. I guess with spell cards, the Tome of Magic, the encyclopedia magica...we didn't need the PHB or DMG after a certain point, though I do remember occasionally looking at them, I guess.

 

[Morrus]

These two sections show me you have little experience with 2e.

And this statement shows that you can be so factually wrong...to the point of such extreme irony...that you must be posting on the internet.

And the fact that you pretend to remember so well 20 years ago would lead me to believe that you had little experience with 2E.

Dial it back, you two, please. This is on the verge of turning into a full-blown argument.

 

[Remathilis]

And this statement shows that you can be so factually wrong...to the point of such extreme irony...that you must be posting on the internet.

And the fact that you pretend to remember so well 20 years ago would lead me to believe that you had little experience with 2E.

I was still playing 2e up through 2003, when finally we switched all our games to 3.5. We even did a retro game in 2009 as a one shot, and I *still* have Core Rules 2 on my PC. And yes, we did try PO and didn't like it, though some optional parts of Spells & Magic made it into our normal games.

So yes, I was there.

 

[TerraDave]

I was still playing 2e up through 2003, when finally we switched all our games to 3.5. We even did a retro game in 2009 as a one shot, and I *still* have Core Rules 2 on my PC. And yes, we did try PO and didn't like it, though some optional parts of Spells & Magic made it into our normal games.

So yes, I was there.

I had a player who got the CD-ROM (it must have been a CD(s)) with all those books...different then the awesome dragon set of CDs...he raved on it. Then months later we switched to 3E.

By my current standards our 2E game, and it was one ongoing multi year campaign, with its ever shifting mix of house rules and official options, was a mess. But we enjoyed it.

 

[sgtscott658]

I dont think there was a full blown argument but an intelligent conversation between two people. This is a forum after all and aint a forum a place to air ones views? Perhaps it might get heated but that just goes to show how passionate people are about their hobby. No harm no foul I would think.

Dial it back, you two, please. This is on the verge of turning into a full-blown argument.

 

[Jhaelen]

And yes, we did try PO and didn't like it, though some optional parts of Spells & Magic made it into our normal games.

All I remember about PO was that they overhauled the psionics rules and in the process utterly ruined them. It was one of several changes that ruined our 2e Dark Sun campaign (since the new psionics rules were adopted after the Dark Sun Revised box came out).