So I was more or less kicked out of my D&D group

[Pielorinho]

1. I jump all over my players when a character who isnt present makes comments later based on knowledge he wouldnt have. At times it is entirely appropriate for a player to not pay attention if his character is not present.

2. A "good reason" for not being at the session? Please can we stop getting off on ourselves here? ITS A GAME!! You are not the players freaking parents or teachers and no one ever needs to give a DM a good reason. Do you ask for notes from the doctor?

Geez

right back atcha, bud.

1) Yes, it's inappropriate to act on knowledge your PC doesn't possess. For that reason, I'll take players out of the room if I need to discuss something with them that the others REALLY shouldn't know. Given DC's comparison of his reading a book to the other players' discussion of CCGs, however, I don't get the impression that he was reading in order to distract himself from stuff his PC shouldn't know about. I think that's a bogus point.

2) No, I'm not the players' freaking parents or teachers. Even if I were, so what? My players are adults. They are also my friends. And if my friends have so little respect for my time that they're willing to flake out on me like I think DC did, it makes me unhappy. I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to meet them for dinner and bring the salad; I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to drive everyone to a movie. And I wouldn't flake out on my friends if I'm supposed to play a game with them and if my absence is gonna be a pain in the butt for the DM. It's about courtesy and respect, not about Defying Authority Figures.

Daniel

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Are you Sharks mommy now? Do you have to answer for him?

right back atcha, bud.

1) Yes, it's inappropriate to act on knowledge your PC doesn't possess. For that reason, I'll take players out of the room if I need to discuss something with them that the others REALLY shouldn't know. Given DC's comparison of his reading a book to the other players' discussion of CCGs, however, I don't get the impression that he was reading in order to distract himself from stuff his PC shouldn't know about. I think that's a bogus point.

2) No, I'm not the players' freaking parents or teachers. Even if I were, so what? My players are adults. They are also my friends. And if my friends have so little respect for my time that they're willing to flake out on me like I think DC did, it makes me unhappy. I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to meet them for dinner and bring the salad; I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to drive everyone to a movie. And I wouldn't flake out on my friends if I'm supposed to play a game with them and if my absence is gonna be a pain in the butt for the DM. It's about courtesy and respect, not about Defying Authority Figures.

Daniel

 

[DarkCrisis]

Well, ultimately I guess it depends on the group's dynamics. I know that some games are pickup games, where you don't even tell anyone you'll be there: you just drop by your FLGS to see if a game is happening. Some games are pretty casual: if you can't show up for a session, no big deal. And some games are like mine: if someone calls me the afternoon of the game to cancel, I may have to call everyone to cancel the game.

DC: --- Like I said it was RP light. It was a dungeon crawl. 1 or more of the people not showing up made no difference. He liked having us all there but not dire to any story.

I recognize that this sometimes has to happen, but I hate hate hate when it happens because people haven't managed their time well, or because they don't feel like showing up. When people don't recognize that they're inconveniencing everyone, it peeves me. (Notice that word "peeve" over and over"? I mean it really peeves me off.)

I also hate it when I've described a scene, and then a player who's obviously not been paying attention tries to get me to redescribe everything for his sake. It's one thing to have an out-of-game conversation: if everyone's engaged in it, if we've broken the game for a few minutes to shoot the bull, that's fine. But when we're gaming, I want folks to be gaming. Imagine that we were playing basketball: when the ball's not on the court, it's fine for folks to be chatting, horsing around, even reading. But if the ball is in motion, you dang well better not have a book in your hands.

DC: ---- just as said... what scene? its room description which may or may not have a monster. The only *story* was visions the cleric had to lead us to the next dungeon after we finished the current one.

It sounds to me as if DarkCrisis' DM may value folks' showing up to a session, and may value folks' paying attention to what's going on when he's actually describing a scene. I can totally understand that: these are both important to me. It also sounds to me like the DM may be petty and vindictive, and responds to thoughtless rudeness with passive-aggressive nonsense.

DC: --- If he values people showing up and attention then why does he not reprimand those who no call/no show ona regualr basis yet I call ahead for 1 night since we started and I'm the bad one? Or I flip through a book yet others can paint or chat about Warhammer or Warlord (with or with out the rest of the groups participation)? Why is what I do handled differnt?

I would like to see what the DM has to say in his own defense. DarkCrisis, do you feel like sending him a link to this thread, so that he can speak up on his own behalf?

DC: ---He doesn't like computers. I gave him an old Pentium but he rarely touches it.

Daniel

 

[Fenes 2]

Well, there is a difference between not showing up sometimes, and showing up sometimes. I fully understand that no one can make it to every gaming session, but I expect a certain comittment. If I prepare a session for hours then I expect some consideration. If a player starts to attend irregularily, and finally only comes when he has nothing better to do it ruins my fun - I start to feel like I am a sort of last resort, something barely better than tv. I don't need that.

Don't "It is only a game" me - if I spend hours working and preparing on it, and plan on spending a even more hours playing it I expect a good reason to cancel, not just a "I do not feel like it". For me it is the same as a dinner invitation - if it gets canceled after I prepared the meal there should better be a good reason, and it should be canceled in advance, or I will be peeved.

Edit: Just to clarify: I still think DC's DM, as he was portayed in this thread, was not right to act how he did. I just wanted to make clear that I consider a game session as important as any other appointment - if I say I will attend I will attend. If it stzarts getting a chore I will stop attending - but I will announce that clearly, I will not find excuses for not attending whuile everyone still expects me to attend "next time".

 

[DSC-Niffer]

I agree with most, sounds like the DM isn't one that I would play with. Sorry to hear you have had terrible time with them and good luck finding another group.

 

[Pielorinho]

Are you Sharks mommy now? Do you have to answer for him?

No, but I play his mommy sometimes. You should see when we get out the diapers --

uh, no, maybe you shouldn't.

Maybe instead, Doc, you should consider that you're on a public messageboard in a public conversation. If you've got something private to say to Shark, shoot off an email to him. Otherwise, learn to expect that when you say something on a messageboard, you don't get to control who responds to it.

Learn the ways of the Internet, young grasshoppah, and you will be much happier.

Next lesson: the perils of top-responding!
Daniel

 

[Sixchan]

Don't be silly. If I tell a group of friends that I'm going to meet them downtown for coffee, we don't sign a contract about the meeting; nevertheless, if I decide not to show up, they get peeved.

If I was going to meet my friends in town for tea (since I don't drink coffee), and one of them called ahead to say that he couldn't make it, I really wouldn't mind. Even if it was something like "I'd just like the house to myself for a bit."

This isn't something peculiar to gaming: it's a basic rule of polite society. Once you agree to show up to a social meeting, you're OBLIGATED to show up to it. ESPECIALLY if some aspect of the social meeting depends on you.

I'd make do. If that person was bringing the Teabags, and he couldn't come, I'd phone someone else and ask them to bring the teabags.
If DC was playing in a Roleplaying campaign then yes, I could get pretty mad at him for not showing up, but DC has already said that this was a "There is a 10x10 room through the door. Inside, there are 500 goblins. Roll for initiative." type of campaign, and considering that the players and party seemed to do fine even when the rogue was DEAD, it doesn't seem like a big deal he didn't turn up.

Mythago, I apologize if I incorrectly attribute the "relative's death or your own death" rule to Miss Manners; it might be an Emily Post rule. My fiancee finds guilty pleasure in reading etiquette guides and told me about this rule. In any case, it's obviously an exaggeration -- if you're in a car accident or you're kidnapped by madmen or if a gas leak in your house knocks you unconscious, nobody will fault you for not showing up to a meeting. But wanting a quiet evening at home is a lousy excuse.

In your opinion. I hardly ever get the house to myself. If a player doesn't turn up because of this, and he calls ahead, as his friend I'd probably advise him to miss the game.

 

[jdavis]

right back atcha, bud.

1) Yes, it's inappropriate to act on knowledge your PC doesn't possess. For that reason, I'll take players out of the room if I need to discuss something with them that the others REALLY shouldn't know. Given DC's comparison of his reading a book to the other players' discussion of CCGs, however, I don't get the impression that he was reading in order to distract himself from stuff his PC shouldn't know about. I think that's a bogus point.

2) No, I'm not the players' freaking parents or teachers. Even if I were, so what? My players are adults. They are also my friends. And if my friends have so little respect for my time that they're willing to flake out on me like I think DC did, it makes me unhappy. I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to meet them for dinner and bring the salad; I wouldn't stand up my friends if I were supposed to drive everyone to a movie. And I wouldn't flake out on my friends if I'm supposed to play a game with them and if my absence is gonna be a pain in the butt for the DM. It's about courtesy and respect, not about Defying Authority Figures.

Daniel

Well i've already ran my mouth more than I normally care to but I wanted to post on the showing up bit. I play with a group of friends, it is wonderful, but we all have lives outside of this, we are 30 somethings with wives and children and jobs and a million other things going on. D&D is our time to get away and relax. I can see from the many different responses here that everybody plays differently, but nobody wants to agree that the way they play works the way they like not the way it should be. It should be that the group all agrees on how deep and important the game will be. I don't feel that there is any special social contract or this is a social event, the peole I game with feel the same, we don't take it overly serious, we don't cancel if one or two or even sometimes three of us can't make it, we find something to do, we get together because we want to get together with our friends, the D&D is just something we do. We send out a group e-mail thursday or Friday asking if we are gaming Sunday like we always do, everybody replies yes or no, we never assume anybody will be there we always ask. People miss all the time, heck it's rare everybody is there, it's just one of those things, real life gets in the way. Nobody ever no shows, that is rude, but it's ok to not show up as long as you say "hey I can't make it." I wouldn't play in a game where I was expected to show up or else or where I felt like my not showing up would ruin the game, I know I just don't always have the time, D&D is a luxury, it's entertainment, I'm not expected to always go to the movies with my friends, not alwys can I go to lunch with my friends and not always can I game. Not to mention sometimes I just don't want to, is it not ok for somebody to not want to game one week? Do you need a reason to not feel like it one week? When I was younger we were a lot more serious about gaming, now it is a luxury and we go into every session hoping we will get to game rather than expecting it.

There is no reason to fight or argue about this, it will be different from group to group, there is no right or wrong answer here, you cannot say this is how it is supposed to be because it's supposed to be different for each group, the big thing is that the people in the group agree on how much weight to put on showing up. No showing with out letting somebody know is just wrong, it's too easy to call somebody or e-mail somebody and say "hey something came up". Calling ahead and saying "hey I can't make it because _____" depends on how the group is set up to give a level to how bad that is, for my group any excuse works (even the lack of a excuse) but I realize that it will be different from group to group.

By what I'm reading in this situation it was apparently wrong for him to miss once but was ok for other people to miss whenever they felt like it, I also got from this situation that not always were the discussions about card games involving the DM, they were just people chating during the game. I also saw where he said he apologized for looking at the book (for those of you that say he didn't take any responsibility for what he did) and that the DM admitted he was a vengful person who would get you for percieved slights. It is obvious that the DM took a dislike to DarkCrisis and got rid of him.

 

[Pielorinho]

DarkCrisis, what i get from your last post is that you REALLY don't respect the game this guy was running. If that's the case, why did you bother to show up?

It may be that your contempt for him is showing through during the session; if that's the case, no wonder he's being a jerk to you. It's one thing to disrespect someone by flaking out on the game; it's much worse to disrespect someone openly, to their face, in front of their friends.

Were you doing that? Was your attitude of, "why should I pay attention to this 'it's a room, kill everything in it' description?" obvious to him?

Like I said, I wouldn't play in this game, based on your description of it. But i also wouldn't tolerate behavior like yours in my game, based on your description of it. If you don't enjoy a game, back out gracefully -- don't hang around blatantly ignoring it.

Daniel

 

[DarkCrisis]

DarkCrisis, what i get from your last post is that you REALLY don't respect the game this guy was running. If that's the case, why did you bother to show up?

It may be that your contempt for him is showing through during the session; if that's the case, no wonder he's being a jerk to you. It's one thing to disrespect someone by flaking out on the game; it's much worse to disrespect someone openly, to their face, in front of their friends.

Were you doing that? Was your attitude of, "why should I pay attention to this 'it's a room, kill everything in it' description?" obvious to him?

Like I said, I wouldn't play in this game, based on your description of it. But i also wouldn't tolerate behavior like yours in my game, based on your description of it. If you don't enjoy a game, back out gracefully -- don't hang around blatantly ignoring it.

Daniel

Do you read my posts? Never before when others where talking or painiting or reading themselves did he have a problem but I do it and I piss him off? I only saif the "Why are they treated differnt or what do i any differnt" remarks AFTER he said I didnt need to be there.

And he is/was my friend. We hung out he played in my games I played in his. I even gave him a Computer cause he didn't have one, just to be a good friend to him.

Your posts make it sound like I was the ONLY one who ever ignored him or didnt show up. I was his most attentive. Only bad thing Id say about his DM style is his BORING dungeon crawls and the fact when he makes a mistake (like with a monsters abilites or stats or whatever or other in game stuff) he pulls the DM's always right rule.

I ask you: Why is it bad for me to read a book or not show up when PC #1 can show up whenever he likes with no calls and PC#2 can read his book and PC#3 Can go missing for 5 weeks then welcomed back. PC#4 and #5 can caht about Warhammer yet I call ahead one night and apologize for reading on another yet my actions demand his wrath. Explain that to me since you seem to know all about it. Explain to me why I have to be treated different.

Explain it