So we got the sheets, let's calculate the crunch!!

[Peter LaCara]

Only when an adjacent enemy shifts. 4E's massive 30x40+ encounter areas lessens the impact of that. Any tactically aware baddies are going to do their best to not get adjacent and one of them (4 normally) having -2 to attack for the privilege ain't bad.

It does seem like the fighter has more ways to manipulate her enemies' positions on the battlefield, though. And it's possible that both the fighter and the paladin just get the default mark for free, and the fighter focussed on more strikerly stuff while the paladin focussed on the defendery stuff since they knew they'd be in the same party.

I'll also note that the fighter has Stand Your Ground, which I'm not sure if it's a fighter thing or a dwarf thing (I could go either way), which means that once she gets between you and her allies, you're sure as hell not pushing her out of the way.

 

[Mentat55]

The dwarven fighter attack bonus looks like it comes from:

1/2 level (0) + Str mod (+3) + Weapon Proficiency (+2 with hammer, axe) + feats/abilities (e.g., Dwarven Weapon Training: +1 attack with hammers and axes) = +6

Similarly, damage seems to be (using the warhammer as an example):

Weapon damage die (1d10) + Str mod (+3) + feats/abilities (e.g., Dwarven Weapon Training: +2 damage with hammers and axes)

I think Dwarven Weapon Training + fighter class abilities (that are not listed, as noted at the bottom of the character sheets) might combine to be something like 3E Weapon Focus + Weapon Specialization for hammers and axes.

 

[Stalker0]

The dwarven fighter attack and damage look like they come from:

My money says the fighter gets some kind of attack bonus at first level, as part of his "package"

Fighters: +1 attack, +2 fort, something like that.

 

[Peter LaCara]

Looking at skills...

It seems like everyone except the wizard get 4 class skill picks, with the human getting +1 trained skill and the ranger getting two bonus skills by default (I predict Nature and Perception). The wizard only has 3 class skills, but took skill training as a feat in Stealth, which I'm betting isn't a class skill for wizards, so that's at least one SWSEism gone that I wasn't such a fan of.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Fighters: +1 attack, +2 fort, something like that.

I dunno that sounds very 3E to me !
Why should Fighters get an attack bonus when they are Defenders? It is going to take a while to get my head around but in 4E Fighters aren't the ultimate weapon attackers. Their role is getting in between the baddies and the squishies and absorbing damage. Not so much dishing the damage out themselves. If any one should get an attack bonus it is the Strikers. Fighters (and Paladins) would more logically get AC and HP bonuses IMO

 

[IceFractal]

What could a 3e wizard do without his material components, vs what a fighter could do with a table leg? Not a whole hell of a lot

Well I'd have to disagree on that point - there's lots of spells without material components, and lots more that have very easily obtainable ones. Plus there's a feat that eliminates them entirely.


As for implements - if the only allowed implement is a wand, that would be pathetic design. However, wands may just be the implements of choice for the sample characters.

I'm alright with implements, as long as:
* There are several options, not just wand.
* They're as cheap as a non-magical weapon.
* They can be enchanted for the same benefit as weapons.
* You can make an improvised one as easily as an improvised weapon (whittling a table-leg into a wand, for instance).
* There's a feat/power for going without an implement, as with Improved Unarmed Strike.

Same thing goes for holy symbols, obviously.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

My Analysis

I thought I summarise everything I've worked out from the six sheets and comments on the threads:

Races (these are deductions, not guesses)
Human: Either (+4 Wis) or (+2 Wis and +2 to one other)
Halfling: (+2 Cha or Wis) and (+2 to one other, not Int)
Half Elf: (+4 Cha) or (+2 Cha and +2 Con)
Dwarf: (+2 Con and +2 Str) or (+4 Con)
Eladrin: +2 Dex and +2 to one other
Tiefling: +2 Int and +2 to one other, not Wis

Hitpoints
Warlock: 12+Con
Paladin: 15+Con
Cleric: 12+Con
Fighter: 15+Con
Ranger: 12+Con
Wizard: 10+Con

Healing Surges
Warlock, Cleric, Ranger, (Rogue): 6+Con mod (I reckon the Human gets a bonus)
Paladin, Fighter: 9+Con mod (I reckon the Halfling gets a bonus)

Defences
Warlock: +1 Ref, +1 Will
Paladin or Halfling: +2 Will
Cleric: +2 Will
Fighter: +2 Fort
Ranger: +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will
Wizard: +2 Will
(Rogue): +2 Ref
Heavy Shield: +2 Ref
Halfling or Paladin or Small: +1 all

Skills
Warlock, Paladin, Fighter, Cleric: 4 (Likely some forced selections here: Arcana, Religion/Heal, Endurance, Religion/Heal)
Wizard: 3 (Arcana + 2 of choice?)
Ranger, (Rogue): 6

Armor
Leather, Hide: +2
Chainmail: +4, -1 move
Scale, Plate: +6, -1 move

Weapon bonuses
Dagger: +3
Shortsword: +3 or +2 with +1 for small
Warhammer, Longbow, Longsword, Mace, Throwing Hammer: +2

Other..
Versatile is +1 for using a weapon in two hands (2H weapons use a bigger dice, no longer the increased Str bonus AND more dice silliness)
Dwarven Weapon Training is likely +1 to hit, +2 damage with Hammers, Axes
Skill Training for ANY skill, not just class
Half-Elf get an invisible +2 Insight bonus

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

From the promo materials we know the halfling gets +2 dex and +2 cha and the elf +2 dex and +2 wis.

From fluff we could guess the Eladrin gets a bonus to Intelligence and the Tiefling gets a bonus to Cha.

 

[jtrowell]

About the darven fighter : the bonus with blunt weapons might come from CON, and not STR (from original article about fighter weapons, where one was saying he might play a fighter with a mace and going for high CON)

And then of course you add the proficiency bonus for each weapon.

I expect some heavy weapons like hammers to do more base damage, but with only a +1 to hit from the proficiency, while dagger get +3 to hit (+4 for rogues).
Note that this also make such weapons a better choice if you must use a weapon without the proficiency (as you lose less from not having it, while still getting, I suppose, good damage and/or special abilites of the weapon)

 

[Pinotage]

Yup, but during the latest podcast they mention that proficiency in light, accurate weapons (eg. rapier and I assume dagger) grant you a better attack bonus than larger, more unweildy ones (big hammers & axes). +3 is the best, most average +2.

Weapon speed factors all over again?

Pinotage