So we got the sheets, let's calculate the crunch!!

[Dausuul]

<deleted by author>

 

[jaer]

Speaking of penalties, the fighter's marking ability is straight up awful, to the point that it fails at its purpose. -2 to attack rolls? oh no. That will make me... still attack the warlock, wizard or cleric, since even with the -2, the fighter's AC is 3 or more points higher, so I still have a better chance of hitting the squishy guys with less hit points.
At least the paladin's mark has a chance of killing the enemy before he kills off your buddies.
Kinda sad.

Does the mark not apply to OA and the like? I mean, the fighter's first level mark might not be enough for to get a creature to attack him and not his allies...but the -2 is still DEFENDING allies. He's making them harder to hit.

The Defender is defending his allies. Sounds like it's working. And sounds like it is far removed from MMO tanking abilities that so many people were worried about them putting into D&D.

 

[jaer]

I dunno that sounds very 3E to me !
Why should Fighters get an attack bonus when they are Defenders? It is going to take a while to get my head around but in 4E Fighters aren't the ultimate weapon attackers. Their role is getting in between the baddies and the squishies and absorbing damage. Not so much dishing the damage out themselves. If any one should get an attack bonus it is the Strikers. Fighters (and Paladins) would more logically get AC and HP bonuses IMO

I would imagine that, if you want to make yourself out to be the greater threat, you need to show you are a threat and need to hit.

Further, looks like many of the strikers will use their abilities for damage, abilities that use different stats to hit and have different mechanics for which Defense they target.

Fighters are supposedly the masters of the Opportunity Attacks. These use only the standard attack hit and damage, not any @ will power. If fighters are masters of the OA, then not only should they provoke more, but they should be better at them.

A strike might not need a +1 to hit because they are using their @ will/per encounter/per day abilities, modifying with their their best stat, and attacking the enemy's lowest defense. The fighter does need it because he is relient upon landing those AOs with the base attack against AC. For that same reason, he is the most trained for it and thereby the most likely to have it.

 

[breschau]

Anyone else take a look at healing?

Cleric: Healing Word. Twice per encounter, once per round. Burst (not touch). Target has to spend a surge.

Paladin: Lay on Hands. Three times per day, once per round. Touch. Paladin spends a surge.

The cleric can do it more often, but the target has to spend surges. The paladin can't do it as often, but uses their own surges to heal.

It doesn't make sense that the divine power of each is limited by the surge. At least from a fluff stand point.

 

[Odysseus]

<deleted by poster>

 

[Stormtalon]

Note that with the Ranger, they've replaced "Favored Enemies" with "Hunter's Quarry." So instead of having a class of creatures the Ranger is really good at taking out, instead his so-called 'Favored Enemy' in 4th Ed is, "Him. That guy right over there. UNLESS SOME OTHER ONE OF YOU GUYS WANTS TO STEP ACROSS THAT LINE THERE AND GET ON MY BAD SIDE!! Yeah, that's what I thought."

 

[Kwalish Kid]

It doesn't make sense that the divine power of each is limited by the surge. At least from a fluff stand point.

I think they wanted a way to put characters beyond healing magic. This happens in narratives all the time, when the best efforts of the healer (magical or surgical) just can't save the patient.

This means that characters can get to a point where they may really be endangering themselves.

 

[Wulfram]

Human: Either (+4 Wis) or (+2 Wis and +2 to one other)

Humans have got a wisdom bonus? :\

How dumb are the other races, if humanity is above average?

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Anyone else take a look at healing?

Cleric: Healing Word. Twice per encounter, once per round. Burst (not touch). Target has to spend a surge.

Paladin: Lay on Hands. Three times per day, once per round. Touch. Paladin spends a surge.

The cleric can do it more often, but the target has to spend surges. The paladin can't do it as often, but uses their own surges to heal.

It doesn't make sense that the divine power of each is limited by the surge. At least from a fluff stand point.

The Paladin's healing is not much different than his ability to lay on hands. When he's out of juice he can't do it anymore.

The Cleric's is different since it is based upon the target's healing surges. From a fluff standpoint I would say that the Cleric provides the divine power, but the recipient has to open themselves up to it and if you keep doing it over and over, it loses its effectiveness.

It's like how you aren't supposed to take more than 8 Tylenol over a 24-hour period.

 

[breschau]

The Paladin's healing is not much different than his ability to lay on hands. When he's out of juice he can't do it anymore.

The Cleric's is different since it is based upon the target's healing surges. From a fluff standpoint I would say that the Cleric provides the divine power, but the recipient has to open themselves up to it and if you keep doing it over and over, it loses its effectiveness.

It's like how you aren't supposed to take more than 8 Tylenol over a 24-hour period.

Yeah, but those Tylenol are given out by the character's god. Only when you hand them out, the god leans down and says, "wait, he's run out of surges, don't give it to him." That's lame.