D&D 5E So what happened to like, the PrCs/Paragon classes and the multi-class classes?

I mean, obviously, I don't expect a solid answer, but having followed 5E for it's entire history, it seems like two things they used to talk about quite a lot have gone MIA - specifically PrCs/Paragon classes - i.e. classes you go into at a level above first, and one thing Mearls was talking about a fair bit a while back - classes which basically simulated a multi-class combo, like Fighter/Mage (3.XE was full of these, for basically the same reason 5E might need them). The last MC rules I saw still kind of necessitated them for some character concepts.

Do we know anything about this? Have they been casually mentioned in Mearls' twitter or an interview I didn't read hard enough, or is it radio silence on them? Which doesn't mean they won't be in the PHB/DMG, of course, but I do wonder...
 

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Due to the way scaling works, specifically with spell slots and proficiency bonus, you can make a fairly viable hybrid character just through multi-classing. There's no need for a Mystic Theurge, when a multi-class mage/cleric actually works.

For more niche concepts, they're either sub-classes or feats.
 

fjw70

Adventurer
I believe there is suppose to be a warrior/mage subclass.

i also remember them saying that PrC/PP would not be in the initial release and is something they would look at down the road.
 

I
I believe there is suppose to be a warrior/mage subclass.

i also remember them saying that PrC/PP would not be in the initial release and is something they would look at down the road.

I belive the eldritch knight sub class has some magic like powers and counts as a caster for multi classing

I think we were told prestige classes where coming just not in the core three books
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I

I belive the eldritch knight sub class has some magic like powers and counts as a caster for multi classing

I think we were told prestige classes where coming just not in the core three books

I personally would not be surprised if we saw prestige classes make their first appearance in the Rise of Tiamat adventure. Tying prestige classes directly to groups or duties directly related to the events of the campaign. That seems to make the most sense, and what I seem to recall was their original idea behind them in 3E. They were "classes" meant to be specific to the story of your campaign.

Since Rise of Tiamat I believe is meant to start at level 8(?)... having specific prestige classes for the character to go into that are a direct result of membership in the different factions dealing with the Cult of the Dragon, or as a result of what happened to them during Hoard... that pulls the characters even tighter into the story. Then... DMs can use the rules in the DMG to design their own prestige classes for their own campaigns if they find the concept of them to be useful or necessary for their own worlds.

But I think the era of books upon books of "generic" prestige classes which are really nothing more than dressed up regular classes with a Background or Theme-like "story hook" and a couple new abilities is long since past. We have Backgrounds now that cover the same generic fluff ground, and we get to use them at 1st level.
 


lkj

Hero
I mean, obviously, I don't expect a solid answer, but having followed 5E for it's entire history, it seems like two things they used to talk about quite a lot have gone MIA - specifically PrCs/Paragon classes - i.e. classes you go into at a level above first, and one thing Mearls was talking about a fair bit a while back - classes which basically simulated a multi-class combo, like Fighter/Mage (3.XE was full of these, for basically the same reason 5E might need them). The last MC rules I saw still kind of necessitated them for some character concepts.

Do we know anything about this? Have they been casually mentioned in Mearls' twitter or an interview I didn't read hard enough, or is it radio silence on them? Which doesn't mean they won't be in the PHB/DMG, of course, but I do wonder...

Ok-- so I'm risking being one of those folks who say 'I know I heard it somewhere . . .' I do remember Mearls answering a question about PrC and Paragon in some medium fairly recently. Maybe a podcast or some such? My recollection is that they were taking a 'wait and see' on how to use and design them. I got the impression that they wouldn't appear right away.

But, darn it all, it's best not to rely on my flawed memory. Take from this that the info is out there-- I believe in an audio form-- and someone should be able to dig it up.

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Jeff Carlsen

Adventurer
Personally, I think prestige classes are unnecessary in 5E. That design space is adequately filled by full classes, subclasses, and the new, larger feats.

The prestige portion lends itself very well to feats with setting based requirements. Membership of a particular guild or order, for example. Subclasses fill in for prestige classes that are variations on a base class. Finally, concepts that are two big for feats should probably be fleshed out into full classes.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Personally, I think prestige classes are unnecessary in 5E. That design space is adequately filled by full classes, subclasses, and the new, larger feats.

The prestige portion lends itself very well to feats with setting based requirements. Membership of a particular guild or order, for example. Subclasses fill in for prestige classes that are variations on a base class. Finally, concepts that are two big for feats should probably be fleshed out into full classes.

Well, the point of Prestige Classes have always seemed to me to be for two reasons:

1) To bring in new mechanics to the game that are powerful enough to begin with that you wouldn't want to start them at 1st level (thus them not being actually classes).

2) To have a "game produced and written" story or narrative evolution of your character as you become more powerful, rather than the player just stating for him/herself "My character is now a Drunken Master!" (or whatever new character narrative the Prestige Class describes.)

As far as the latter point is concerned... many examples of the "generically-named" PrCs have been subsumed by other systems. Do we need the game to spell out what a 'Justicar' is? Or a 'Blackguard'? Or a 'Duelist'? Not really. Those kind of PrCs that are really just alternate class names can more than be covered by the system as it is. We don't need the game to make us a prestige class to become a 'Dwarven Defender'... if we're a dwarf and we have the feat, we're pretty much already that if even we don't have four or five paragraphs written by WotC describing what it is.

And as far as the former point... the problem ends up being just what kinds of additional game mechanics need to be introduced into the game, and how much of that stuff do we really need? And how useful and/or balanced are those mechanics over the mechanics we could get by just taking another level of our class, or start multiclassing? I mean... if all we had was the Basic Game and there was a Barbarian prestige class that introduced a 'Rage' mechanic (which is something many people have hoped the game moved to in the past)... that would be the kind of thing we'd be looking for. But now, once you get past the mechanics found in the 12 classes we're going to have (plus all the sub-classes)... what other mechanics are there and do we really need them? If the answer is no... then the need for prestige classes has passed.

Truth be told... rather than prestige CLASSES... I think we'd be better off with prestige BACKGROUNDS. Backgrounds you take at a certain level that are based off of what you have done in the campaign up to that point-- maybe an organization you've joined, an effect you are under, a rank or job you have attained, something like that. And that's where we can have described in four or five paragraphs what being a member of 'The Harpers' means (for example), and have them give us proficiency in a couple new skills, plus a new background trait. That seems to me a little more useful, a little less book space intensive, a way to get your character more skills, and a way to avoid needing to balance new mechanics against all the mechanics already in the game.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
I had a think about this...

My think involved the concept of class powers as treasure, as cherries on top of your D&D sundae, as things that were not explicitly entitled to use...
 

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