• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E (+) So, what have you done to make martials feel better?


log in or register to remove this ad

ECMO3

Hero
this is odd someone else said this in another thread, I thought warlock was the best middle of the road balanced class...
The good warlocks are good above average classes, the poor ones are below average. As a multiclass option though Undead and Genie are top flight on a 1 or 2 level dip. I would add hexblade to that list as well on a Paladin multiclass.

I don't know if it is really because they are warlocks or because they are whiners. I have played Warlocks, including weak Warlocks. and have had fun.

One hypothesis is that new players do not fully consider the limited spell slots or the mechanic of only having higher level spell slots. When playing a Warlock you need something other than your spells, it does not work well as a pseudo wizard or sorcerer. Having 2 high level spells per short rest means they have more "crowd pleasers" than any class assuming multiple short rests, however if they throw a leveled spell they either have to go nova or they are wasting power. While a 10th level wizard might throw a 1st level burning hands to finish off a Troll near the end of a fight, the Warlock does not have that option, he has to go with a 5th level spell or downselect to a cantrip or weapon attack. This also means low level out of combat spells like comprehend languages have a very high cost to cast.

That is just a hypothesis, I can't say that is the reason why and if you understand the mechanics going in you can work around them.
 

Oofta

Legend
I don't do anything mechanical, I don't think it's necessary.

But I'm responding because I do make sure that everyone shares the spotlight. There's a lot of ways of doing that, both in and out of combat. Have stories and subplots revolve them.

In combat set up situations that play to their strengths. Let them block the portal, have the bad guys attack them, let them be the front line, at least now and then.

I also note what proficiencies and tools the PCs have and ensure that they come into play.

Obviously this applies to all PCs. But I think the DM is at least in part responsible for the player's enjoyment. No rule changes required. In my experience if someone is playing a fighter it's because that's what they want. Sometimes the DM just needs to play into the character the player built.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
We removed feats. A bit counterintuitive but that made martials feel alot better, keeping most classes/subclasses far more in line with each other, and without feats like resilient con casters felt alot more vulnerable to losing concentration which helped balance significantly.

Later iterations we went from outright banning feats to allowing a small curated list of feats on a limited basis.
 

ECMO3

Hero
We removed feats. A bit counterintuitive but that made martials feel alot better, keeping most classes/subclasses far more in line with each other, and without feats like resilient con casters felt alot more vulnerable to losing concentration which helped balance significantly.
Since feats are optional this isn't really even a house rule.

Personally I love feats and probably would not play in a game without feats, but I have also never taken resilient constitution and it is not a feat like to take personally (on a caster or other character).

Usually I am getting a feat to do something cool or out of character - Fey Touched is the most common feat I take, usually with an off-list spell like Hex or Dissonant Whispers. Magic initiate, martial adept, shadow touched, telepathic, telekenetic and gift of the gem dragon are probably the next most common I take after FT. I have taken warcaster, sharpshooter, skill expert, Dragonfear and lucky as well. I think those are all the feats I have taken since 2018.
 
Last edited:

SakanaSensei

Adventurer
We removed feats. A bit counterintuitive but that made martials feel alot better, keeping most classes/subclasses far more in line with each other, and without feats like resilient con casters felt alot more vulnerable to losing concentration which helped balance significantly.

Later iterations we went from outright banning feats to allowing a small curated list of feats on a limited basis.
Interesting. I've always seen feats as one of the only ways martials can keep up/shine in fights, usually in the form of things like Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master. I've also never had a spellcaster use Resilient Constitution, though, so maybe my players not being optimizers has kept that from being a problem.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Interesting. I've always seen feats as one of the only ways martials can keep up/shine in fights, usually in the form of things like Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master. I've also never had a spellcaster use Resilient Constitution, though, so maybe my players not being optimizers has kept that from being a problem.
What feats do your casters take?
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
We removed feats. A bit counterintuitive but that made martials feel alot better, keeping most classes/subclasses far more in line with each other, and without feats like resilient con casters felt alot more vulnerable to losing concentration which helped balance significantly.

Later iterations we went from outright banning feats to allowing a small curated list of feats on a limited basis.
Wow that is counter intuitive... especially since the highest impact feats I was considering making selectable martial class features instead.
 


ECMO3

Hero
What feats do your casters take?

I left off Warcaster, I did take that once too. I took Warcaster after I already had Fey Touched and dissonant whispers and I was playing in a game where the DM rules movement from DW causes a AOO (I've seen DMs go both ways on that).

I multiclass a lot so it is difficult to say "caster" but the last 7 characters who had 3rd level slots took the following:

Human Tempest Cleric7/Fathomless Warlock1 - Fey Touched (wisdom, dissonant whispers), Warcaster

Vampir Shadow Sorcerer 1/Undead Warlock 6 - Shadow Touched (charisma, cause Fear)

Drow Bladesinger 8/Undead Warlock 2 - Fey Touched (intelligence, Hex), Shadow Touched (intelligence, False Life)

Dragonborn Fey Wanderer 7/Whispers Bard 4 - Dragonfear (charisma, forgot about this one too), Wisdom ASI

Goblin Rogue1/Fey Wanderer 13 - Shadow Touched (wisdom, cause fear), Telepathic (wisdom), Gift of the Gem Dragon (wisdom)

Human Bladesinger 9/Arcane Trickster 4 - Fey Touched (intelligence, Hex), shadow touched (intelligence, cause fear), telepathic (intelligence), dexterity ASI.

Another thing the constitution on these characters was all fairly low - the cleric had a 12 constitution, the Vampir had a 14 on rolled stats (and had warlock as her first class), the rest of them had a 10.

Most of the other feats I mentioned (martial adept, magic initiate, lucky, sharpshooter), those I usually take on classes that are primarily martial, although I take Fey Touched a lot on those classes too.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top