So, what was the first product where D&D's soul was sold?

[BlackMoria]

OK, after reading the Warz thread, its clear there is a general agreement that at some point TSR and WOTC chose to favor marketing and commercialism over the "needs" of the players.....

To quote Adam from Mythbusters - "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Namely, I don't believe in that the soul of D&D was ever sold. The game evolved and grew with each product released. Sometimes a product wasn't well received or served the best interests of the game but that is not selling out the soul of D&D - that is the normal marketing reality of business.

D&D is alive and well (the fact that 30+ years, it continues to go on and on confirms that). Others like the original poster might disagree and if so, I refer you to the quote by Adam above.

 

[T. Foster]

Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits (1980)

Gary Gygax had his own idea how he was going to wrap up the Giant-Drow series (reportedly involving a confrontation with minions of the Elder Elemental God on the shores of the Sunless Sea) but was informed by Brian and Kevin Blume (who, between them, had controlling interest in TSR) "thanks but no thanks, we're going with an adventure based on this cool map David Sutherland drew inspired by his mother's bath mat instead -- oh, and by the way, we'll be making all the decisions around here from now on, thankyouverymuch." The rest, as they say, is history.

This is (an admittedly third or fourth-hand account of) the true story. Gary's introduction in the published Q1 is a fabrication, his attempt to "go along to get along."

 

[the_myth]

Shady Dragon Inn

a rogue's gallery of characters with AWFUL stats coupled with an appendix of stats on the Dungeons & Dragons action figure line.

it all went downhill from there...straight to the cartoon series


hehe

 

[crazy_cat]

There wasn't one.

"Selling out" of D&D has always ocurred at the corporate level.....
*snip snip*

But if you and I start talking, rules agnostic, about things GREYHAWK or that one time in B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS when the thief backstabbed the owlbear and saved the party, or sneaking in to Nosnra's hideout, or painting up minis, or dice collections, or meeting Gary for the first time (with the caveat that you're not a hater), or your first GenCon (gotta go to that someday, if only to shake my cane at you young punks see what it's like)...then DUNGEONS & DRAGONS hasn't sold out, regardless of what some idiot in a suit in the Corporate Office says or does (and I don't think Gary Gygax, Peter Adkinson or Ryan Dancey were idiots in suits).

QFT.

Post 40, bottom of page 1 - Best post in this thread so far.

 

[Gentlegamer]

RE: Unearthed Arcana

It was definitely rushed into publication (as well as OA). I don't think there's any doubt about that. However, it wasn't like Gary or others sat down over a weekend to crank out new rules just for the sake of having a new official A&D product. Almost all of UA had been published in Dragon in the years preceeding.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Shady Dragon Inn

a rogue's gallery of characters with AWFUL stats coupled with an appendix of stats on the Dungeons & Dragons action figure line.

it all went downhill from there...straight to the cartoon series


hehe

GREAT map, though. I still use it today, although I inexplicably set it in a different town than my campaign is based in.

 

[Stalker0]

OK, after reading the Warz thread, its clear there is a general agreement that at some point TSR and WOTC chose to favor marketing and commercialism over the "needs" of the players.

There is one single need that unites all dnd players from past to present...the need to have dnd.

As long as WOTC continues to sell products that utilize marketing and commercialism to earn a fair profit, we will all have dnd.

Long live Capitalism.

 

[Kishin]

I see your Mr. Roboto and raise you one Operation: Mindcrime

Whoa there. The best concept album ever is a sellout record? Technically, I'd say Queensryche 'sold out' with Hear in the Now Frontier, though Empire is probably cutting it close for most people. Also, I've seen a growing number of 'true' Metallica fans these days claim they sold out with And Justice..., which is positively hilarious. But, I digress.

Anyway, to get to the OP's point, how, if D&D has stopped thinking about the needs of its customers, has the hobby grown, rather than contracted? I'm going to refrain from coming down on any side in an Edition War, but I think that's something worth considering.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Operation: Mindcrime is indeed the best concept album ever. I've been fortunate enough to attend a live performance of it by Queensryche in its entirety. Revolution Calling!

 

[diaglo]

Whoa there. The best concept album ever is a sellout record? Technically, I'd say Queensryche 'sold out' with Hear in the Now Frontier, though Empire is probably cutting it close for most people. Also, I've seen a growing number of 'true' Metallica fans these days claim they sold out with And Justice..., which is positively hilarious. But, I digress.

Anyway, to get to the OP's point, how, if D&D has stopped thinking about the needs of its customers, has the hobby grown, rather than contracted? I'm going to refrain from coming down on any side in an Edition War, but I think that's something worth considering.

Empire was indeed a sellout.