So what's the deal with "Midnight"?

[Ashrem Bayle]

Oh, and Midnight is indeed a D&D setting, not a seperate d20 game.

 

[Wombat]

As I stated in another thread, and I think it bears repeating here, the Heroic Paths, while an interesting concept, really are just a way to have the power you get from magical items without needing to physically need magical items. Now in Midnight this is somewhat appropriate, in that magical items will draw the attention of Mr. BBEG the God, but I also find the Hero Paths a bit disappointing. Ultimately you will have just as many powers as if you had all the items, so in the end it is a wash. I would have found the game much more interesting without the Heroic Paths, in that the characters would have been forced back on their own skills and abilities without any form of augmentation.

But then again, if you did that you could never use the ubermonsters so popular in high level games, so there is it...

 

[Desdichado]

Eh. It's a toss up. I'd consider it a setting, but with the massive rule changes (Casting, new races, classes, Heroic Paths, the wildly different power balance...), I could easily see it as a seperate game too, despite not having char gen rules and such.

So, it's a question of degree? Otherwise, do discussions of Oriental Adventures need to be moved here for the same reasons (minus power balance?)

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

As I stated in another thread, and I think it bears repeating here, the Heroic Paths, while an interesting concept, really are just a way to have the power you get from magical items without needing to physically need magical items. Now in Midnight this is somewhat appropriate, in that magical items will draw the attention of Mr. BBEG the God, but I also find the Hero Paths a bit disappointing. Ultimately you will have just as many powers as if you had all the items, so in the end it is a wash. I would have found the game much more interesting without the Heroic Paths, in that the characters would have been forced back on their own skills and abilities without any form of augmentation.

But then again, if you did that you could never use the ubermonsters so popular in high level games, so there is it...

I see what you are saying, but I REALLY don't think Heroic Paths are as powerful as the number of magic items a Midnight character gives up.

Midnight Characters only get 25% of the magic items a normal D&D character gets. No way any Heroic Path is that powerful.

I think you should really consider using them. Not for the added power, but for the flavor they bring to the setting. I love them.

 

[AeroDm]

I haven't seen midnight (or any setting for that matter) at high levels, but I can say for certain that at low levels a hero path is greater than the normal amount of magic you would have. If for no other reason than at 1st level you are supposed to begin with per se 100 gp, and any permanent magic item (which hero paths replicate) is worth more than that.

Couple this with the fact that your race is twice as powerful and you have low level characters rather superior to their cannon counterparts.

This isn't a dis on MN as I really enjoy the setting, but it seems to me that the customization of hero paths (in that you get to see all the powers, when you'll get them, and select from 20+ options) makes them superior to magic items in the early to mid levels.

IIRC, the Ironborn mentioned above in increase in HD at 1st, +1 to Fort save at 2, +1 Natural armor at 3, Fast Healing 1 at 4, and DR 1 at 5.

Increase HD- nothing comparable spring to mind, but +1 hp/level on average (so say 1/2 the worth of the +2 con item or 2k)
+1 Fort save- bonus squared * 1000 or (1k)
+1 Natural arm- bonus squared * 2000 (2k)
Fast Healing 1- not sure, but worth a lot.
DR 1- not sure, but worth a lot.

A 5th level character should have just under 10k (again, no book so could be wrong) and I am pretty sure that the unpriced items would be worth more than 5k. MN characters are not really underequipped for combat, but they are underequipped for everyday life.

You can't upkeep everything like you do in Faerun, cause you ain't got nothing! You record how much salt you carry, you record your exact weight, and you realize coins are worthless.

Hope that helps. And if it seems odd, I do enjoy MN. So buy it.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I haven't seen midnight (or any setting for that matter) at high levels, but I can say for certain that at low levels a hero path is greater than the normal amount of magic you would have. If for no other reason than at 1st level you are supposed to begin with per se 100 gp, and any permanent magic item (which hero paths replicate) is worth more than that.

Yes. This is exactly why my above post mentions "taking the training wheels of for the DM".

Sure. At first level you are about equel to a "normal' 2nd level character. But the entire world is against you. If played correctly, you're characters will need that additional power to simply survive. The Heroic Paths are definately not going to make things "easy" for you.

Cast a spell in the wrong place, and all the Heroic Paths in the world want save a 1st level character from the wrath of an astirax. And thats a real threat at 1st level.

You want to be giantblooded? Fine. You'll get a lot of really powerful stuff at 1st level. Good luck making it to second... The last thing you want to do in Midnight is stand out, and 9ft tall people tend to do that.

Once you get to about 5th level, when you would normally start getting magical items, then you'll start to feel the sting.

Basically, I think the complaint was that the Heroic Paths remove the increased difficulty of Midnight. IMHO, if that's the case, your DM simply isn't using the setting correctly.

Couple this with the fact that your race is twice as powerful and you have low level characters rather superior to their cannon counterparts.

So are the enemies though. They are MUCH more powerful. The average orc has at least two class levels. (Usually barbarian and fighter.)

 

[Green Knight]

So HERE'S where my errant thread went. Best click on E-Mail Notification so I don't lose track of it, again.

*click*

ANYWAY, I saw a post by someone else here about a Midnight SRD, so I downloaded it and got a gander at the Heroic Paths. Pretty neat stuff. I REALLY like that Giantblooded one. The Guardian, Ironborn, and Juggernaut are also pretty damned cool. Quick a few Heroic Paths there, though. Pretty awesome selection.

As for races, I'm partial to those Erenlanders', myself. Nevermind that they've got something which I think Humans should have in standard D&D, which is a +2/-2 bonus/penalty to any stat of their choice.

Pretty good stuff. I really ought to get the book. Thanks to everyone for what you've posted so far, especially Ashrem Bayle, for the indepth review.

 

[Nifelhein]

I have a general guiding to what midnight things are on the web, FFG, in fact, I set this up for my players and you can see it at my website, section Midnight, good to know what it is and what is in it.

www.empyr.kit.net or at my signature edit: I took it out of it, but you can find it at the botom of my posts...

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Pretty good stuff. I really ought to get the book. Thanks to everyone for what you've posted so far, especially Ashrem Bayle, for the indepth review.

You are very welcome. Hope to see you over at www.againsttheshadow.org soon.

You guys keep an eye on Against the Shadow's main news page. We've got quiet an announcement coming up. It should be posted today or tommorrow and relates to a huge chunk of FREE Midnighty goodness.

 

[TSL]

Green Knight-

Just so you know, 'cause that's the kind of thing that can bug a fellow, the story you were thinking of was written by John Wick. It was titled, appropriately enough, "The Last Paladin".