D&D General So, you want realism in D&D?


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But let's make no mistake. 'Verisimilitude' is usually used as a cudgel to remove fantasy elements that aren't discreet magic with dubious understanding of the reality they're trying to ape. See also: plate armor is super heavy and makes you a sad turtle man'.
my favorite is when they say feelings don't matter here are the facts... then you show them new facts so they say that doesn't feel true. (like people doing acrobatics in plate, or people running faster then D&D allows or jumping almost at all)
 




"Most recent IQ test you have taken"

How many IQ tests did people used to take?
in my school they made us take one in 5th grade, and I choose to take one in HS (it was for a bet) but they were very different the 5th grade one might have been because of my special needs status. both came out in the same range so I assume that even though the test were different they were messureing the same thing (not that I could even tell you what that is)
 


Well put! And this is actually a big problem in literary theory, with which I had a few sparring sessions in the process of my PhD. For instance, the distinction you're making between two different senses of Realism implies that what is real in the real world and what's real in the fiction can be separate. In contrast, Dr. Stacie Friend argues that we subconsciously adopt what she calls The Reality Assumption, which means that "everything that is (really) true is fictionally the case, unless excluded by the work." If we take this to be what's behind the notion of realism in fiction, then two senses of realism that you just described melt into one: Realism does mean "looking and behaving like the real world", except when the work explicitly adds different assumptions, in which case realism means "being well-grounded in established rules that do not change for light and transient reasons".

The problem with the Reality Assumption is that I hate it and how sturdy it is. It made my PhD thesis's work way harder than I thought it would be, and although I feel like there are obvious cases where we do not just assume everything in real life translates to all works of fiction unless stated otherwise, it's a really solid theory that is really difficult to disprove. And as long as it is difficult to disprove, it looks like the two senses of realism must be blended to a certain extent. Which might also be why I value verisimilutude over realism when it comes to fiction — verisimilutude explicitly interests itself with a feeling of things being plausible instead of conforming to reality.
I mean, the single biggest problem with the Reality Assumption is that it WILL lead you astray. Not even in an accidental sense; authors will exploit it against readers for shock value, subverted expectations, or plot twists.

For D&D specifically, the major issue isn't so much the Reality Assumption, but rather several unreality assumptions, coupled with some carte blanche attitudes regarding the realism of specific things.

1. The vast majority of D&D players have extremely unrealistic, and indeed completely counterfactual, understandings of what is physically possible for human beings in the real world to achieve. This is less a "reality" assumption and more a projection-of-self assumption. D&D characters are often expected to be limited, not by the potential limits of actual human beings, but by what the player personally can achieve. This is of course patently ridiculous, because the player isn't anywhere near an Olympic athlete, which is a much better standard for what reality actually permits in terms of human physical fitness.
2. A significant number of D&D players (not quite as many as the previous, since some of them are actual enthusiasts of medieval history) have completely backwards concepts of several verifiable historical or physical things. E.g., how much weapons and armor should weigh, or whether it is appropriate for there to be gunpowder weapons in a D&D context, since most people don't know that matchlock guns appeared in the 1400s, meaning essentially exactly the same time as what we call "full plate armor" today.
3. People are really, really bad at physics and statistics. The vast majority of people, even those who have taken introductory physics courses, will default to an Aristotelian model of how the world works. E.g., heavier objects fall measurably faster than lighter objects (they do not; they experience exactly the same amount of acceleration if dropped from the same height), objects naturally slow down until they stop (they do not; they only do so in the presence of friction forces), etc. Likewise, humans have very finely-tuned intuitions only for specific kinds of probability, and those intuitions produce garbage results outside of those specific questions (this is why simply changing how a probability question is asked can increase the rate at which people answer it correctly, even though the information content is unchanged.) As a result, they will presume many entirely unreal things, and then get confused, even angry, when those unreal things are proved unreal (consider the Monty Hall problem).
4. The aforementioned carte blanche comes in the form of magic. What can magic, or magical things/creatures, do? Who knows! There are essentially no limits prescribed on what "magic" can do in D&D, just call it "magic" and most people instantly accept whatever you describe without comment. This punctures the Reality Assumption argument from the opposite direction: works often need to do damn near nothing to (so-called) justify entities or behaviors that aren't grounded in real-world things. Dragons, for example, are so deeply embedded in human culture (seriously, there's something dragon-like in nearly all cultures on Earth), that their presence in fiction (D&D or otherwise) often doesn't even get any explicit justification at all, they're just present and merely assumed to work because we see them doing the things dragons are supposed to do (fly, breathe fire, usually live a long time, sometimes talk, sometimes use magic, maintain stable populations despite completely insane mating practices and lifespans, etc.)

It's these things that are the real problem with calls for "realism" in D&D. They reflect that there IS a gap between "semblance to our physical Earth" and "groundedness in a set of cognizable rules." It's just sometimes they'll create a gap where there shouldn't be one, and other times they literally need nothing more than two words--"it's magic"--to cross a gap as wide as Valles Marinaris!

"Most recent IQ test you have taken"

How many IQ tests did people used to take?
I've taken a handful in my life. If I'm allowed to round, technically speaking, my most recent (which was...a long time ago) would give me a whopping 19 INT. (I'm pretty sure that score was a fluke. I'm smart, but I am fairly sure I am not THAT smart.)
 

We're giving serious answers? :cautious: Okay.

My answer is that I want reality + magic + a sprinkle of action movie logic all modified for fun and simplification for gameplay reasons.

So dragons fly and breath fire because magic. But people also have small amounts of inherent magic that help them heal more quickly or make more attacks than realistic. HP are there because we have to have something to indicate how long on average you can last in a fight and that something should reflect experience and training. We have levels and turns and discreet spell level slots because it's relatively easy.

But for the most part? I assume the D&D world works like ours does. If you're firing dual hand crossbows you have to have a free hand to reload for example. But I also don't impose a lot of rules because that's how I think they should work. Do you sink like a stone in heavy armor? Well ... I at one point had found a video from a middle aged guy that went swimming in a lake wearing chainmail and it worked just fine. The gambeson apparently acted something like a flotation device. Sleeping in heavy armor? No clue how much more difficult it would be than any other armor and unless puts on properly fitted armor and does some real world testing I don't think anyone else does either.

Of course you can't please everyone. We have jumping rules that some people dislike because they look at Olympic records. Very, very few people can long jump anything close to world records especially if you take into consideration all the variables of terrain, age, weight carried and so on.

So for me it's not reality, but I want it reality adjacent. I want to be able to envision what happens as if it were in a somewhat grounded fantasy movie.
 

Your character is a peasant. Make a Constitution save to avoid dying of plague.

I assume the characters are supposed to be protagonists in a Howard story or Tolkien-knockoff novel, depending on subgenre.

Technically an IQ test is supposed to have average 100 and SD 15, whereas 3d6x10 has average 105 and SD 30. But there's no reason characters should be randomly drawn from the population--maybe they really are likely to be that one-in-a-million genius (or strongman, or acrobat, or politician, etc.) The point is that characters are supposed to be exceptional.

There is, say, Ryuutama where you play a baker or shopkeeper off on an adventure, but that's a different game with different mechanics to reflect that.
 

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