Someone help me to like Evangelian!!!!!

[KenM]

I have never watched it, but everyone I know that has seen it either thinks the ending is brilliant or totally sucks and destroys the entire series.

 

[Dark Jezter]

It always bothers me to see people bash something just because they don't like/understand it.

Oh, I understand Evangelion. I've watched it, read all the essays explaining the series, had discussion with fans of the show, et cetera. Understanding the show still didn't make it any better for me. I thought it was crap when I watched it, and I thought it was crap after people explained it to me.

And accusing people who don't like something of not understanding it just comes across arrogant and condescending.

It's hard to define what's "good" and what's not, since we are so into pluralism that we've reduced everything to a question of personal taste. That said, if you look at the (supposedly) objective viewpoint of what sells, and what is popular, Shin Seiki Evangelion is a landmark. There's a reason so many people like it, and if you don't, that's fine...but you really can't say its a poor anime: something that's just inherently bad doesn't sell that well.

Be careful when you say that if something sells well or has great popularity it can't possibly be bad. You'll open the floodgates for a host of replies determined to prove you wrong.

In regards to the content of the series itself, I would debate this, but since the tone of this thread has already become "Evangelion is teh suxx0rs" (with slightly better spelling), I'm bowing out now. Instead, to understand more of the series, here are some articles about it written by someone far more knowledgeable than I:

That last paragraph just plain came across as insulting and argumentative. You're attacking the intelligence of the people who have posted their opinions of Evangelion just because they didn't like it as much as you do. With that in mind, I hope you'll understand if I don't care to look at the articles you linked to (besides, I doubt they could tell me anything about Evangelion I haven't heard before).

anime has a stereotype of involving partially cyberneticized people in cloaks leaping through the air with katanas and then brooding while flighty ditzy women repeatedly fall in love with them despite the guys' utter emotional uninvolvement and inability to return any sort of affection, usually with really cool mecha-effects at some point.

LOL! That is, without a doubt, one of the best summaries of anime stereotypes I've ever read. Bravo!

 

[Alzrius]

accusing people who don't like something of not understanding it just comes across arrogant and condescending.

People don't seem to see that I said "don't like/understand". The slash mark there is an "or". You can not like it, or not understand it, but neither one is an excuse for using inflammatory and insulting language in regards to it. That's just looking for a flame war.

Be careful when you say that if something sells well or has great popularity it can't possibly be bad. You'll open the floodgates for a host of replies determined to prove you wrong.

Perhaps, but I think there has to be some likeable appeal to something for it to be consumed en masse.

You're attacking the intelligence of the people who have posted their opinions of Evangelion just because they didn't like it as much as you do.

No, I'm attacking the people who posted the derogatory remarks about the show. It's one thing to say that you dislike what was depicted, or how. It's quite another to say "I don't see how anyone could like this pretentious drivel". That's reaching out and slapping everyone who does like the show across the face.

 

[Dark Jezter]

People don't seem to see that I said "don't like/understand". The slash mark there is an "or". You can not like it, or not understand it, but neither one is an excuse for using inflammatory and insulting language in regards to it. That's just looking for a flame war.

So bashing something you don't like is just looking for a flame war?

In that case, Morrus and Piratecat should start disciplining all the ENWorlders who bash the Star Wars prequels or the Matrix sequels, because they're obviously trying to start flame wars, and flame wars are against forum rules.

No, I'm attacking the people who posted the derogatory remarks about the show. It's one thing to say that you dislike what was depicted, or how. It's quite another to say "I don't see how anyone could like this pretentious drivel". That's reaching out and slapping everyone who does like the show across the face.

It's only a slap across the face if you interpret it that way. Statements like "How could anybody like this crap?" or "What the hell was the creator smoking?" are common (if strongly-worded) criticisms of bad books/movies/games/TV shows. Getting angry and making personal attacks against the people who say such things is a good way to get the thread closed.

 

[Alzrius]

So bashing something you don't like is just looking for a flame war?

Inflammatory language never leads to anything good.

In that case, Morrus and Piratecat should start disciplining all the ENWorlders who bash the Star Wars prequels or the Matrix sequels, because they're obviously trying to start flame wars, and flame wars are against forum rules.

Darn right!

Getting angry and making personal attacks against the people who say such things is a good way to get the thread closed.

I agree, hence why I didn't do that. I didn't name names, I just said that the tone of the thread wasn't about an honest exchange of opinions anymore...it had crossed the line from disagreement to disagreeable.

 

[argo]

It started as an only marginally poor giant robot anime, but ended up being the story of a bunch of self loathing, suicidal idiots (the worst being Shinji the main character). The end left more questions than answers and was so mind-bendingly discombobulating that I thought that my head would explode.

Funny, those are usually listed as the show's main selling points

Seriously though, I'm a big fan of Eva but since you've already seen the entire series I'm not going to try and convince you that you're wrong and you should like the show. I will fight hard to convince people to watch the show, to give it a chance, to stick with it all the way to the end and even see the movies but one thing I will not do is try to change the mind of someone who doesn't like it. Eva is a show that works on many different levels, that speaks to the viewer and engages the viewer on many different levels. It reaches into your psyche and if it turns you off nothing I say is gonna change your mind. But I for one think that it is a great show. It makes you brain start twisting and bending in ways you wern't quite sure was possible and I like that in my entertainment.

Plus Askua and Misato are hot.

It struck me mostly as stereotypical anime -- like, textbook-case stereotypical anime

Point one: the guys at Ginax have been accused of many things over the years, not least of which is of having an unhealthy obsession with young girls (Princess Maker is so wrong) but they have never been accused of a lack of creativity or inventiveness.

Point two: probably the reason it seemed so stereotypical to you is because it is one of the shows that helped establish the stereotypes. Its like accusing Superman of being unorigional because he wears his underwear over his pants... that argument just doesn't work



So now what I want is for everybody in this thread to go out and find themselves a copy of FCLC

 

[Dark Jezter]

Inflammatory language never leads to anything good.

Oh, I disagree wholeheartedly. Inflammatory language is a remarkably efficent way to condemn something deserving. One exable I can think of is Roger Ebert saying that Charlie's Angels is "eye candy for the blind" and "a movie without a brain in its three pretty little heads."

I agree, hence why I didn't do that. I didn't name names, I just said that the tone of the thread wasn't about an honest exchange of opinions anymore...it had crossed the line from disagreement to disagreeable.

No, you said that the thread had become "Evangelion is teh suxx0rs" with slightly better spelling. Just because the response to Evangelion had been overwhelmingly negative up to that point didn't mean that an honest exchange of opinions wasn't allowed.

Plus Askua and Misato are hot.

Now, Misato I can understand. But Asuka??? She's only fourteen years old.

Point one: the guys at Ginax have been accused of many things over the years, not least of which is of having an unhealthy obsession with young girls (Princess Maker is so wrong)

I agree with this, but I'd apply it to a lot more studios than just Gainax. One thing that disturbs me about anime on a whole is that anime has few reservations about showing early-teen or younger girls in skimpy clothing (or in some cases, no clothing at all). That's one of the primary reasons I was never able to enjoy Love Hina (well, that and the show itself was a completely unremarkable, formulatic harem anime).

 

[Geoff Watson]

* I know. It's a medium, not a genre. I realize this. There's nonviolent, non-SF romantic comedy anime. I know. Really. However, for the geek on the street, anime has a stereotype of involving partially cyberneticized people in cloaks leaping through the air with katanas and then brooding while flighty ditzy women repeatedly fall in love with them despite the guys' utter emotional uninvolvement and inability to return any sort of affection, usually with really cool mecha-effects at some point.

I've seen a lot of anime, and can't think of any that matches this description.

What anime have you seen?

Geoff.

 

[NiTessine]

Yeah, well. Neon Genesis Evangelion is one of those things that split opinions pretty dramatically. The writer, Hideaki Anno, was going through some rather heavy depression during the time he made it, and it's reflected in the series. Not everybody gets it. Not everybody enjoys it. If everybody did, I'd be really worried. It's rather similar to The Ultimate Date Movie in that respect.

Personally, I liked it, even though Shinji's a whining brat who needs nothing so much as a shovel in the face.

 

[Mog Elffoe]

(Note: Mostly hypothetical on my end -- watched all of one episode and wasn't impressed. I have limited time, and I lack the chronological resources to give everything ten hours to win me over.)

It struck me mostly as stereotypical anime -- like, textbook-case stereotypical anime*. If you like stereotypical anime, then good on ya. This will probably work for you. If you don't, then unless it changes radically some point in the middle, it's probably going to continue to be something you don't like.

One thing that I can say about Neon Genesis Evangelion is that it is definitely NOT 'stereotypical' anime. It may start off like that, but when it hits its turning point it is like nothing that I have ever seen. It doesn't work for me in the slightest, but is different--I'll give it that.

Takyris--if you didn't like Akira because of its weird what-the-heck-is-that-supposed-to-mean ending then I recommend avoiding Evangelion's ending(s) entirely. It's on a whole 'nother level of 'weird what-the-heck-is-that-supposed-to-mean'-ness.