Someone help me to like Evangelian!!!!!

[CrusaderX]

eva is great if you like religious psychology and judeo-christian mysticism.

Extremely superficial religious psychology and judeo-christian mysticism, that is.

The only thing Judeo-Christian about the series that was some ham-handed iconic name dropping.

Exactly. Though, to be fair, the creators of Eva have admitted this themselves.

 

[zen_hydra]

Can someone who likes the series (or just anyone for that matter) explain the very end of the End of Evangelion movie to me? After all that they have come through (the appearent end of the world as they knew it) what was the deal with Shinji strangling Asuka, then crumbling into a sobbing heap, and Asuka telling him how disgusting he was. Can someone tell me what I am supposed to take from that? Do they still hate each other? Is there something that I missed that gives a clue what is to happen from that point on? Are they the only to people left with physical form? The main problem, as I see it, with this show is that it starts as a character drama and then goes off into some alegorical tangent and the character are just thrown by the wayside. Does some manga explain this all? If so what is the resolution?

 

[takyris]

I've seen a lot of anime, and can't think of any that matches this description.

Then I'd submit that you haven't seen much anime, or that you're off watching a completely different sort. The "Clueless Guy has a Whole Mess of Hot Women Fall in Love with Him but Never Realizes It" stereotype, instead, maybe.

But sorry. I don't remember titles. It's been awhile since I bothered to watch much. I did like Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away, though.

One thing that I can say about Neon Genesis Evangelion is that it is definitely NOT 'stereotypical' anime. It may start off like that, but when it hits its turning point it is like nothing that I have ever seen. It doesn't work for me in the slightest, but is different--I'll give it that.

Heh. Well, I did say that I'd only seen one or two episodes. I most likely saw the earlier stuff, then.

Point one: the guys at Ginax have been accused of many things over the years, not least of which is of having an unhealthy obsession with young girls (Princess Maker is so wrong) but they have never been accused of a lack of creativity or inventiveness.

There's a first time for everything. But given my whole "only saw one or two episodes" thing, that's not really an accusation for me to make.

Point two: probably the reason it seemed so stereotypical to you is because it is one of the shows that helped establish the stereotypes. Its like accusing Superman of being unorigional because he wears his underwear over his pants... that argument just doesn't work

See, actually, the funny thing is, that argument works perfectly. You seem to be looking at it from an art appreciation viewpoint, where it's important to view the show in the context of being the first show to do X and Y. That's perfectly valid, and viewpoints like yours are often what result in great new stuff coming out. I totally respect that viewpoint. I just don't particularly share it.

I'm coming at it from a consumer viewpoint. The only standard that matters is whether or not I was entertained. I wasn't. It doesn't matter if the reason for my lack of entertainment is that other shows I've seen before shamelessly aped the stuff that this show did for the very first time. That doesn't matter to me at all, because I'm not in art-appreciation mode. As far as I'm concerned, the only real standard is "Have I seen this before, and is this a good enough version of it to merit me watching it again?" For me, the answer was "no".

You aren't obligated to like everything I like. You aren't obligated to approach the things I look at from the art-appreciation standpoint. And I'm not obligated to look for deeper shades of meaning or subtle nuances in a story about people having katana duels with big giant robots.

 

[WizarDru]

Then I'd submit that you haven't seen much anime, or that you're off watching a completely different sort. The "Clueless Guy has a Whole Mess of Hot Women Fall in Love with Him but Never Realizes It" stereotype, instead, maybe.

Yeah, but that's different...that's an actual sterotype. The previous description shown in this thread sounds like a specific show, and I couldn't tell you what one it is. It's certainly not Beserk!, City Hunter, Golgo 13, Space Cruiser Yamato, Dash Yankuro, Yu-Yu-Hakusho, Dragonball Z, Geneschaft, Infite Ryvius or any of a host of other shows. If it's a stereotype, I think I'dve seen it at least once in the last thirty years or so of anime watching. What you described? All the time.

 

[takyris]

Really? I stand corrected. As does Dark Jezter, who thought I was onto something. I was deliberately going over-the-top and adding a fair amount of specific stuff that was not actually likely to appear in every anime episode ever. But the thing about stereotypes is that they tend to be a set of elements, and it's not so much an "all of these apply" as "if X or more of these apply". While I certainly didn't anticipate that all major titles would match what I said, I figured that there'd be a fair amount of pingage. If you honestly believe that no elements of:

"...partially cyberneticized people in cloaks leaping through the air with katanas and then brooding while flighty ditzy women repeatedly fall in love with them despite the guys' utter emotional uninvolvement and inability to return any sort of affection, usually with really cool mecha-effects at some point..."

...appear in popular anime, then you probably know better than I do. The little I've seen must have been skewed to the interests of the people who brought it over.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I knew almost right away that Taky's list of stereotypes... "partially cyberneticized people in cloaks leaping through the air with katanas and then brooding while flighty ditzy women repeatedly fall in love with them despite the guys' utter emotional uninvolvement and inability to return any sort of affection, usually with really cool mecha-effects at some point." wasn't referring to any single anime, but was rather combining cliches that are found in lots of anime movies and series to describe a single stereotype-adhering show.

Let's break down the stereotypes that Takyris presented...

Partially cyberneticized people: Yep, seen several characters in different sci-fi anime series and movies that have cybernetic implants of some sort. Often times a big-ass gun on the end of their arm.

Cloaks: Yep, even anime series I've seen that take place in modern times or the future have characters wearing long cloaks that billow out dramatically in the wind.

Leaping through with air with katanas: X 1999 and Ninja Scroll are two examples I can think of.

Brooding, emotionally unresponsive heroes: I've lost track of how many times I've seen this type of character.

Flighty, ditzy women who fall in love with the hero despite his aloofness: Ditto.

Really cool mecha-effects: Let's see... Gundam, Macross, Evangelion, Gasaraki, and Dual are all anime series I know of with lots of mecha-action. I'm sure there are probably more.

So, while Takyris' comments may not fit any single movie or show, they very well could.

 

[WizarDru]

wasn't referring to any single anime, but was rather combining cliches that are found in lots of anime movies and series to describe a single stereotype-adhering show.

Oh, to be sure, if you break it down, everything there is in any number of shows. Just not all at once. Although I think Cloaks is kind of overreaching, frankly.

As for Evangelion...no, I'm not going to try and convince you to like it. If you didn't like it, why would you want someone to convince you otherwise? If you're wondering why some people like it, you've seen some links above. Me? I recognize that it kicked off a certain breed of giant robot show that was more introspective, but I'll take RahXephon any day of the week over Evangelion. Better character, better story and an ending that was worth the ride.

 

[Haradim]

Can someone who likes the series (or just anyone for that matter) explain the very end of the End of Evangelion movie to me?

I'm not sure there is any solid explaination of what happened then, or after (though I've heard a thing or two of a director's commentary about the series). There are a number of interpretations regarding the ending (and the characters and other elements of the series) scattered across the web, and I even have one or items saved (one regarding an analysis of the characters compared to the elements that make up the Sephiroth Tree of Life...which was a tad over my head when I looked into the full tradition surrounding that ). So there's a fair number of ways people have looked at this show.

Overall, I wouldn't try to convince anyone to like Eva. I like it, but I'm not even 100% sure why (I'm not usually one to probe deeply into the meaning of things), and this is one anime that tends to be notably 'love it or hate it'. I would, however, encourage others to at least watch it; it's something of an anime classic, and it has its cool moments regardless of the pseudo-religous symbolism, vague meaning, and unconventional characters.

 

[dreaded_beast]

I love Evangelian, but I can't make someone else like it if they already don't.

It's like chocolate ice cream. You love it, you can give all your reasons for loving it, but that doesn't mean your friend who hates chocolate ice cream, will start to love it.

Evangelian is a matter of taste, in my opinion.

However, I don't think that it is really that deserving of the criticism it has encountered in this thread so far.

I like it, so it can't be that bad, right? Hehe.

 

[demiurge1138]

Alright, I'll bite, seeing as how my post was one I assume was dropped into the category of "Evangelion is teh suxxor". I didn't like Eva, and I said as much. Note, however, that I don't think that the series was all bad, or that nobody should like it. I just... didn't. Elements of it were good, but the series as a whole left a bad taste in my mouth.

Part of Eva's problem for me was, admittedly, the budget problems. The last half of the series had lots of stock footage and long pauses, and the last two episodes were half psychotherapy and half clipshow. Had the series not run out of money would I have liked it better? Probably not, as the better funded movies gave me a headache.

But you can't just assume that somebody doesn't understand something just because they don't like it. I understand Eva's metaplot quite well thank you, and I like it. More than the actual series, in fact.

I really think that differences of opinion should be treated as such instead of as attacks.

That said, the stereotypical anime mentioned definately bears many motifs that would be easily identified as "anime", without adhering to any specific series.