Sony & Marvel work it out

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Huzzah! An agreement has been reached for cooperation on a third Spider Man movie starring Tom Holland.

Sony has the right to use Spider-Man in its "Spider-Universe" movies (so, we may see Spider-Man show up in a Venom movie, for example). And, Spider-Man can show up in one other MCU movie.

Best of both worlds... and will keep Tom Holland busy for several years, and probably earn him an obscene amount of money.


 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
A note on them having the agreement for one more movie:

There is a lot of discussion that Sony Pictures is apt to get bought in the next few years (apparently, Amazon was mulling a bid for such, to bolster the Amazon Prime streaming service). It has been reported that Sony's right to Spider-Man will revert to Marvel if Sony gets purchased. Making a longer-term agreement, then, could complicate matters, so I can see Marvel/Disney keeping the deals short until Sony's long-term status settles out.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Pretty much premature tabloid coverage of negotiations and positioning and bluffs ending up with the expected result.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I'm going to agree with lowkey on this one - it wasn't premature. I think Sony honestly thought that it was going to be fine if they did their own Spider-Man movie, and was ready to walk away from the table.

I would be completely unsurprised if Marvel leaked some information to get the (predictable) fan reaction, which helped Sony see the error of their ways.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
A note on them having the agreement for one more movie:

There is a lot of discussion that Sony Pictures is apt to get bought in the next few years (apparently, Amazon was mulling a bid for such, to bolster the Amazon Prime streaming service). It has been reported that Sony's right to Spider-Man will revert to Marvel if Sony gets purchased. Making a longer-term agreement, then, could complicate matters, so I can see Marvel/Disney keeping the deals short until Sony's long-term status settles out.
Sony could, and should, sell- someone will offer them a pretty penny.

That said, the reason Sony even got into the business (they bought the music company CBS Records and then the studio Columbia Pictures in the late 80s) is because they never wanted their tech to get left behind due to a lack of content; while that is a questionable motive, and even more questionable as to whether or not it has been a successful gambit, Sony has a long corporate memory and the string of technologies that they believe (correctly or not) failed due to a lack of content.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Sony could, and should, sell- someone will offer them a pretty penny.
I agree. Even if you remove the Marvel content, there's a lot of value there - especially in the hands of someone who is a tad better than Sony at controlling production costs.
 

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
I'm excited about this, but also somewhat ashamed for being excited about two megacorporations having finished posturing and leveraging over money.

Regardless, it'll be great to see Spider-Man continue to play a role in the MCU.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
At one point, people were reporting that Sony would sell the FULL RIGHTS to Spider-Man back to Disney/Marvel for many billions of dollars. That way if/when they get sold to Apple/Amazon/whoever, they would still get something. If not, the right revert back to Marvel on Sony's sale.

So this 25% (instead of the 50-50 Disney wanted original), is OK.

Wonder if Sony's on-again/off-again sinister six film will include the characters are protrayed in the Tom Holland's films?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
So this 25% (instead of the 50-50 Disney wanted original), is OK.
Well, in any negotiation, you start higher than your minimum, right?

Wonder if Sony's on-again/off-again sinister six film will include the characters are portrayed in the Tom Holland's films?
I think, under these circumstances, a Sinister Six would be a hard sell. The two Spider-villains currently established were in the original Sinister Six. One is dead*, and the other has already once on screen chosen to not destroy Spider-Man. You'd need to get four more villains into play, and they'd get short shrift if they weren't solidly established elsewhere beforehand.

Plus, are they going to try this when the Suicide Squad was so lackluster? Hasn't that proven that establishing a whole crew of villains at once isn't a great idea?




*Theoretically. But, yeah, Master of Illusion and all that.
 

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
I suspect that movie is going to sit in development hell. At the point they announced it, I think it was a premature ambition, and still is.

The other question mark is Venom. Are we going to see Tom Hardy's Venom and Spider-Man go head-to-head? It seems like that would be the end goal, but much about their strategy with Venom could be described as mystifying, shall we say.

Wonder if Sony's on-again/off-again sinister six film will include the characters are protrayed in the Tom Holland's films?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
The other question mark is Venom. Are we going to see Tom Hardy's Venom and Spider-Man go head-to-head? It seems like that would be the end goal, but much about their strategy with Venom could be described as mystifying, shall we say.
I admit, I didn't see Venom. I wasn't in the mood for anti-heroes at the time. And it has been a long time since I found the character generally interesting. And, why that is speaks, to me, about the success of a movie that's got him and Spider-Man.

One of the big attractions of Spider-Man as a character is that... he's psychologically acceptable. Yes, he's a genius and a hero, but he's also... a person we can understand and care about. That means that many of his best stories arent' just about the fight between Spider-Man and Villain X. They are about the relationship between Spider-Man/Peter and the villain. In each of the last two Spider-Man movies, they crafted really interesting relationships that impact Spidey's choices.

In the original comic, Spider-Man as a nigh-disturbingly intimate connection to Venom. And that relationship makes a conflict between Spidey and Venom interesting. But, in this iteration of Venom... the connection isn't there. At all.

So, other than super-strange fight scenes, I don't know why they'd put them in the same movie. Nor do I think Sony recognizes that this is what makes Spider-Man movies interesting (leading to the lack of success of their own forays with the character). I don't think they'll try to craft a relationship, or do a good job of it if they did try.
 

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
I saw it, and while it wasn't as bad as I expected, it wasn't great. Like DC's movies, it felt like they were trying to jump right into this character without doing the work to build those connections. They mention a Daily Bugle incident, but it's ever so brief. Hardly the source for the all-consuming obsession that fueled Venom in the comics originally.

I've been re-reading the original Spider-Man comics, and the comics are absolutely on-fire good. No small part of that is Spider-Man's relatability. He's not some chisel-chinned heroic archetype, but a smart kid that thinks, that feels, that worries. That has to put up with being bullied, comes down with the flu, sprains his ankle.

I admit, I didn't see Venom. I wasn't in the mood for anti-heroes at the time. And it has been a long time since I found the character generally interesting. And, why that is speaks, to me, about the success of a movie that's got him and Spider-Man.

One of the big attractions of Spider-Man as a character is that... he's psychologically acceptable. Yes, he's a genius and a hero, but he's also... a person we can understand and care about. That means that many of his best stories arent' just about the fight between Spider-Man and Villain X. They are about the relationship between Spider-Man/Peter and the villain. In each of the last two Spider-Man movies, they crafted really interesting relationships that impact Spidey's choices.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Plus, are they going to try this when the Suicide Squad was so lackluster? Hasn't that proven that establishing a whole crew of villains at once isn't a great idea?
Suicide Squad was a success, though, even though it wasn’t that good. And besides, they know damn well that the poor critical reception was a result of bad execution.

It is getting a reboot/sequel with a MCU director, after all.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Suicide Squad was a success, though, even though it wasn’t that good.
Well, we get to quibble over "success" now.

It made money, yes, but it was #9 in the box office that year. It was beaten by Finding Dory, The Secret Life of Pets, and Jungle Book, among others. It was also behind Batman v. Superman, which made money, but was not considered a success for what it did for the franchise.

And besides, they know damn well that the poor critical reception was a result of bad execution.
No, they don't. I mean, yes, Suicide Squad was not well executed, but that may not be entirely the fault of the production itself - introducing and establishing a half-dozen characters, all at once, so you find them compelling enough to care what's going on, is not easy. It may well be a Herculean task - it can be done by a hero, perhaps, but even then it is not a sure thing.

Not that Sony Pictures has proven to be all that bright, mind you. Folks are talking about them getting bought for a reason. So, yeah, maybe they'll have failed to learn from the failures of others, and will try anyway. More's the pity.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
introducing and establishing a half-dozen characters, all at once, so you find them compelling enough to care what's going on, is not easy. It may well be a Herculean task - it can be done by a hero, perhaps, but even then it is not a sure thing.
Ensemble casts aren't that uncommon -- Dirty Dozen, Reservoir Dogs, Ocean's 11, Lord of the Rings (though admittedly most viewers already knew some of the characters), Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, The Usual Suspects, Fast & Furious. It's often done; just in this case it wasn't done well.
 

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