D&D 5E Sorcerer class improvement house rule

[Salthorae]

I read through that paragraph and I see requirements that fit the wizard's strengths, such as a "party arcanist" suite of spells, but I see nothing that focuses on what makes the sorcerer a sorcerer. There's a bit about the acid focus that says at least there's some toward the subclass, but everything about the general class is describing a wizard class, not a sorcerer class. It's no surprise it was a poor fit.

I think you might be reading "party arcanist" a bit narrowly. I took it to mean that they wanted to be a sorcerer who could be the arcane role in the party. Which they can do, even with going for a theme. It might look different, but there is no reason you can't do it.

To me, the real knock for sorcerers (which is one of my favorite 5e classes to play and why it's frustrating) is their super lack of spells known. They are fluff supposed to be innately magical, yet both the Bard and Warlock who are also Charisma arcane casters, know more magic than default Sorcerers.

Spells known at the top end by Subclass (including UA):

• Baseline: 6 cantrips & 15 spells of any levels
• Aberrant Mind: base + 2 per spell level from 1st-5th (total 6 + 25)
• Divine Soul: base + 1 spell based on alignment affinity choice
• Draconic Bloodline: base + "mage armor" from Draconic Resilience
• Giant Soul: base + 1 cantrip, 1x 1st level, 1x 2nd level based on Giant Bloodline
• Shadow Magic: base + darkness
• Storm Sorcery: base (in UA it was base +2/spell level like Aberrant Mind)
• Wild Magic: base

Compared with the other spontaneous/charisma casters:

• Bard baseline: 4 cantrips & 22 spells of any levels (4 of which can be from any spell list)
  • Glamour: can do command once/long rest so kind of like a spell known
  • Lore Bard: +2 spells from any class
• Warlock baseline: 4 cantrips & 15 spells of any level up to 5th + 1 each of 6th-9th for a total of 19 spells known

So a sorcerer, the truly innate caster of arcane magic knows the least amount of spells even from their own class of spellcasters. Wizards dwarf them in spells known, but also prepared (20+Int mod (5)), plus at the top end, they get 1 unlimited spell from 1st and 2nd level each, swappable per day AND 2x 3rd level spells they can cast 1/Long Rest each without expending a spell slot.

To me, it's odd and unreasonable that the most "pure" arcane caster knows the least amount of spells. Which is why I give them more spells known at my table!

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As for a Black Dragon theme... well what are you trying to do @Sword of Spirit that you don't feel like you can get done?

In 5e dragons don't have any innate magic other than their breath weapon.

You could play a Black Dragonborn and start the game with a 30' line Acid line Breath Weapon. You could also take the XGE feats for Dragonborn to get a Fear Aura like the Dragon's Frightful Presence as well as claws and scaled armor (redundant with the Draconic Bloodline class feature). Not to mention Acid Resistance at 1st level.

Or forego the Dragon Hide feat (armor + claws) and wait to get Alter Self at 3rd level. 1 hour, extendable to 2 with the right metamagic. That gives you the ability to breath water and swim like a Black dragon, but also grow claws (when you're not underwater) or a bite to attack like a Black Dragon. You can swap between being amphibious to natural weapons as an action each turn for the duration and Quicken some other spell still.

So far I've only touched one the default 15 spells known.

If it's "acidy" things you want to do, there is Acid Splash (cantrip), Chromatic Orb (1st), Dragon's Breath (2nd), and Vitriolic Sphere (4th - like Fireball but lasts 2 rounds and one level higher). Plus you have an innate breath weapon as a Dragonborn.

As a Draconic Bloodline you're adding your Charisma to most of the damages on those as well so they only get better.

So using 4 of the 15 spells known +1 cantrip and a feat (at 4th), you've got 4 or 5 ways to deliver acid damage, claws/bite, swimming & water breathing, as well as a frightful presence effect.

Mix in Quicken spell to toss out Orbs & Splashes or Spheres and Splashes and you've got a good combat baseline.

Then you have 11 spells known and 5 cantrips worth to play with over the levels to get things like Flight (until you get your wings at 14th level) and whatever else you think you might want as a caster.

I know "fire" get all the spells, but tons of things have fire resistance too. Few have acid resistance, plus with the Orb and the Dragon's Breath, you can change to different energy types each combat/casting. Also you have room to add more damage types in cantrip form.

Sorry, this got long.

 

[FrogReaver]

The issue for the sorcerer and most casters in general - following a theme for your spells is vastly underpowered compared to just picking the best spells that cover different areas.

There can be no balance here. To increase the themes power the non-themes power also increases.

Well, there is one way around this - Give some bonus for staying with the themes spells.
There's also another way - simply eliminate the ability to pick spells that don't align with your theme. Then you can do quite a bit of powering up as needed.

 

[GlassJaw]

Sorcery points on short rest recharge.

This, a thousand times this. This change instantly makes the sorcerer unique and solves the sorcery point problem. I would also grant additional metamagic abilities.

The sorcerer also needs far better origin subclasses. It's ridiculous you can't play an "elementalist" out of the box.

I don't think the sorcerer needs additional spells known per se, but they do need custom spell lists, which I would tie to the Origin paths. It's certainly beyond the scope the devs had for 5E but unique spell lists for each Origin would really make the sorcerer feel unique and highly customizable.

Unlike the other casters that may get a few additional spells from their subclass, I would do the opposite for sorcerers: a small spell list that is shared by all sorcerers but most of their spell list is determined by their Origin.

 

[Salthorae]

I agree with the OP’s premise: sorcerer is supposed to have a narrow focus, but that focus doesn’t need to be that narrow. A few things I considered, not necessarily all at the same time.

1) one or two bonus thematic spells per spell level 1-5, like domain extra spells.

2) 50% sorcery points recharge on short rest. A bit under, but not far off arcane recovery.

3) all metamagic options from level 2. Or start with 4, then 2 per extra metamagic features. Mirrors battlemaster

1) Agreed, i do this at my table

2) not sure about this, but I'd have to see it in play to see if it really changed the dynamic of the game too much

3) I give 2 at each extra feature instead of 1, so you'd get 6 total at my table, not 4.

 

[FrogReaver]

I agree with the OP’s premise: sorcerer is supposed to have a narrow focus, but that focus doesn’t need to be that narrow. A few things I considered, not necessarily all at the same time.

1) one or two bonus thematic spells per spell level 1-5, like domain extra spells.

2) 50% sorcery points recharge on short rest. A bit under, but not far off arcane recovery.

3) all metamagic options from level 2. Or start with 4, then 2 per extra metamagic features. Mirrors battlemaster

A wizard can prepare 4 spells at level 1. Your sorcerer would be preparing 3 or 4 as well. At level 5 a wizard can prepare 9 spells. Your sorcerer would be preparing between 9 and 12.

For the love of D&D think about proposed changes before posting them

 

[Blue]

To me, the real knock for sorcerers (which is one of my favorite 5e classes to play and why it's frustrating) is their super lack of spells known. They are fluff supposed to be innately magical, yet both the Bard and Warlock who are also Charisma arcane casters, know more magic than default Sorcerers.

The way I interpret it is different. Sorcerers know fewer spells but can adjust those spells with metamagic, making them more flexible than those other casters. Like if they total magical flexibility is "Known spells * 1.0 (can't adjust)" for the others and sorcerers are "Known spells * 1.5 (metamagic) and the second number for the sorcerer keeps going up as you get more SP and eventually more types of metamagic.

Going just by spells known is like using BMI to determine if someone is obese. Because muscle is denser than fat, someone who works out regularly can have an even higher BMI but lower body fat - it's only a partial score of the full picture.

The bard and warlock also start with half the cantrips of the sorcerer, so the sorcerer has much more flexibility than either of them in terms of magic they can do at will.

 

[Salthorae]

A wizard can prepare 4 spells at level 1. Your sorcerer would be preparing 3 or 4 as well. At level 5 a wizard can prepare 9 spells. Your sorcerer would be preparing between 9 and 12.

For the love of D&D think about proposed changes before posting them

I think you misunderstand his point. Not 1-2 bonus spells per class level, but spell level. just like a domain or Circle of the Land class benefit. Also what you DO see in the Unearthed Arcana for the original Storm Sorcerer and the new Aberrant Mind. So bonus spells at Sorcerer level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 of Spell levels 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

The difference you're not talking about though is that unlike Wizards, Sorcerer's don't have Ritual Spellcasting.

So, while a wizard can prepare 4-5 spells at level 1 depending on stat generation method and race, along with 3 cantrips. They also start the game with 6 spells known (vs. the sorcerer's 2 known spells by default) in their spellbook at 1st level and if 2 of them are Rituals (detect magic, find familiar, alarm, comprehend languages, identify, tenser's floating disk, unseen servant), they can cast those all day long without preparing them.

I do 1 extra spell known of each spell level from 1st-5th like domain spells, so they would have 3 spells known + 4 cantrips, almost exactly inverse of the wizard.

At 5th a Wizard is preparing 9-10 spells (again depending on stat generation method and race) + 4 cantrips, and my sorcerer would have 9 spells known + 5 cantrips. Again, with Ritual Casting, the Wizard now has: +2x 1st level, +4x 2nd level, & +2x 3rd level spells in their spellbook. Any of them being rituals they can cast for free all day long regardless of whether they are prepared or not.

There are 16 Ritual spells that a Wizard can have in their spellbook and cast all day long without preparing that a Sorcerer would have to waste both a spell known and spell slot to cast, so it's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be to give the sorcerer 5 more spells known. I'm not sure 10 more is out of the question, as evidenced by the most recent UA Aberrant Mind.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think you misunderstand his point. Not 1-2 bonus spells per class level, but spell level. just like a domain or Circle of the Land class benefit. Also what you DO see in the Unearthed Arcana for the original Storm Sorcerer and the new Aberrant Mind. So bonus spells at Sorcerer level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 of Spell levels 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

The difference you're not talking about though is that unlike Wizards, Sorcerer's don't have Ritual Spellcasting.

So, while a wizard can prepare 4-5 spells at level 1 depending on stat generation method and race, along with 3 cantrips. They also start the game with 6 spells known (vs. the sorcerer's 2 known spells by default) in their spellbook at 1st level and if 2 of them are Rituals (detect magic, find familiar, alarm, comprehend languages, identify, tenser's floating disk, unseen servant), they can cast those all day long without preparing them.

I do 1 extra spell known of each spell level from 1st-5th like domain spells, so they would have 3 spells known + 4 cantrips, almost exactly inverse of the wizard.

At 5th a Wizard is preparing 9-10 spells (again depending on stat generation method and race) + 4 cantrips, and my sorcerer would have 9 spells known + 5 cantrips. Again, with Ritual Casting, the Wizard now has: +2x 1st level, +4x 2nd level, & +2x 3rd level spells in their spellbook. Any of them being rituals they can cast for free all day long regardless of whether they are prepared or not.

There are 16 Ritual spells that a Wizard can have in their spellbook and cast all day long without preparing that a Sorcerer would have to waste both a spell known and spell slot to cast, so it's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be to give the sorcerer 5 more spells known. I'm not sure 10 more is out of the question, as evidenced by the most recent UA Aberrant Mind.

1. You said 1 to 2 spells per spell level. I provided that range under normal stat progression. (Which your own analysis confirmed 9 spells for wizard and 9 for sorcerer - at the lower rate of +1 per spell level).

2. The sorcerer gets metamagic which is very powerful. If you allow a sorcerer with metamagic to match the spells known with a wizards then you've made a flat out better caster.

 

[Salthorae]

The way I interpret it is different. Sorcerers know fewer spells but can adjust those spells with metamagic, making them more flexible than those other casters. Like if they total magical flexibility is "Known spells * 1.0 (can't adjust)" for the others and sorcerers are "Known spells * 1.5 (metamagic) and the second number for the sorcerer keeps going up as you get more SP and eventually more types of metamagic.

Going just by spells known is like using BMI to determine if someone is obese. Because muscle is denser than fat, someone who works out regularly can have an even higher BMI but lower body fat - it's only a partial score of the full picture.

The bard and warlock also start with half the cantrips of the sorcerer, so the sorcerer has much more flexibility than either of them in terms of magic they can do at will.

Not sure we're going to see eye to eye on this one.

To me metamagic is nice, but it's not Spells Known * 1.5, especially because you only get 2 metamagic options from 3rd to 10th level (which is is the zone most games die).

Most metamagic are great, but they are usually limited to a couple of spells known per option. Quicken is really the only one that is pretty much always useful. And Sorcery points never keep up with daily needs for my experience. I'm always burning through them at a prodigious rate. Then I have to decide if I want to just not have metamagic the rest of the day or burn spell slots to get some back. Unlike a wizard who can get back 1/2 their burned slots 1/Long Rest. That is so many sorcery points worth of casting ability that they just get back.

Yes, a sorcerer has more cantrips. But all the sorcerer has without being really creative or multiclassing, etc is spells. Bard's have a bunch a bunch of other things going on on top of knowing more spells than a sorcerer. The Warlock also has a bunch of other options depending on which Patron/Pact Boon they choose + Invocations.

My point is that by keeping them to the least spells known of any of the Charisma classes, they are overly narrow in their options. Not only do Bards and Warlocks KNOW more spells, they also have more things they can do besides just spells with all their other class features and options.

A sorcerer basically casts spells. So they should have more spells known and flexibility than the other Charisma-based caster options. Not near a Wizard's level obviously as that is the thing. But Sorcerer's are inadequate IMO in their spells known.

 

[Salthorae]

1. You said 1 to 2 spells per spell level. I provided that range under normal stat progression. (Which your own analysis confirmed 9 spells for wizard and 9 for sorcerer - at the lower rate of +1 per spell level).

2. The sorcerer gets metamagic which is very powerful. If you allow a sorcerer with metamagic to match the spells known with a wizards then you've made a flat out better caster.

Again, no sorcerer is ever going to match spells with a wizard because they don't have Ritual Casting. I guess you missed that part of my last post.