D&D 5E Sorcerer Gish Build?

[Zardnaar]

Long time ago I thought up a Sorcerer gish build. Basically a Mountain Dwarf dragon sorcerer using green flame blade and flaming sphere.

This was circa 2015/16. Wasn't particularly meta or anything but idea was 14-16 constitution a d the bonus hp from fire sorcerer, medium armor + shield spell.

Never saw it in play. With tashas and Xanathars though one can add hex blade into the mix and floating +2/+2 and racial armor + weapons.

If you are hexblade fire Genasi instead of mountain dwarf.


Elemental affinity+green flame blade and flaming sphere is interesting. At higher levels haste+ quickend green flame blade. 3 attacks a round with two of them being gfb.

If you're low on hp cycle back and be a normal sorcerer.

Anyway thoughts on the build?

 

[TwoSix]

Long time ago I thought up a Sorcerer gish build. Basically a Mountain Dwarf dragon sorcerer using green flame blade and flaming sphere.

This was circa 2015/16. Wasn't particularly meta or anything but idea was 14-16 constitution a d the bonus hp from fire sorcerer, medium armor + shield spell.

Never saw it in play. With tashas and Xanathars though one can add hex blade into the mix and floating +2/+2 and racial armor + weapons.

If you are hexblade fire Genasi instead of mountain dwarf.


Elemental affinity+green flame blade and flaming sphere is interesting. At higher levels haste+ quickend green flame blade. 3 attacks a round with two of them being gfb.

If you're low on hp cycle back and be a normal sorcerer.

Anyway thoughts on the build?

Straightforward and effective, especially with the hexblade dip.

Lots of options for feats and races makes it a nice, flexible starting point.

 

[ECMO3]

Long time ago I thought up a Sorcerer gish build. Basically a Mountain Dwarf dragon sorcerer using green flame blade and flaming sphere.

This was circa 2015/16. Wasn't particularly meta or anything but idea was 14-16 constitution a d the bonus hp from fire sorcerer, medium armor + shield spell.

Never saw it in play. With tashas and Xanathars though one can add hex blade into the mix and floating +2/+2 and racial armor + weapons.

If you are hexblade fire Genasi instead of mountain dwarf.


Elemental affinity+green flame blade and flaming sphere is interesting. At higher levels haste+ quickend green flame blade. 3 attacks a round with two of them being gfb.

If you're low on hp cycle back and be a normal sorcerer.

Anyway thoughts on the build?

Sorcerer Gish is not going to be as effective as the other full caster Gish's because Sorcerers lack extra attack, and that is going to make a big difference.

Can ypou play a Sorcerer Gish and be effective? Sure, but just about any Sorc build would be a better martial with a Bladesinger, Hexblade or Swords/Valor Bard while being as good a caster.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sorcerer Gish is not going to be as effective as the other full caster Gish's because Sorcerers lack extra attack, and that is going to make a big difference.

Can ypou play a Sorcerer Gish and be effective? Sure, but just about any Sorc build would be a better martial with a Bladesinger, Hexblade or Swords/Valor Bard while being as good a caster.

You can still be a Sorcerer though and crunching numbers the damage is very close.

Comes down to haste and quicken. In "beast mode" you're better than equiv8lent whatever.

When not in beast mode play as a normal sorcerer.

 

[ECMO3]

You can still be a Sorcerer though and crunching numbers the damage is very close.

Comes down to haste and quicken. In "beast mode" you're better than equiv8lent whatever.

You are burning through your resources to do almost as much damage as another Gish caster not using those resources and you are also using your resources to do it.

Also IMO you will not keep up with a Bladesinger in melee at all even doing this. You can make one attack and then quicken a cantrip with a bonus action a few times a day (or many times a day if you trade spell slots for sorcery points between fights), but a Bladesinger gets to do this trick for free and can spam and attack and cantrip every single round without even using a bonus action.

Add in that damage is only one side of the question and when in Bladesong, a Bladesinger is going to have much more defense and will be much better at maintaining concentration on that Haste. Add in Blade Ward as a potential cantrip and you are much more survivable. Add into that the propensity to use Blade Ward with an attack every single turn on a tough fight.

 

[Zardnaar]

You are burning through your resources to do almost as much damage as another Gish caster not using those resources and you are also using your resources to do it.

Also IMO you will not keep up with a Bladesinger in melee at all even doing this. You can make one attack and then quicken a cantrip with a bonus action a few times a day (or many times a day if you trade spell slots for sorcery points between fights), but a Bladesinger gets to do this trick for free and can spam and attack and cantrip every single round without even using a bonus action.

Add in that damage is only one side of the question and when in Bladesong, a Bladesinger is going to have much more defense and will be much better at maintaining concentration on that Haste. Add in Blade Ward as a potential cantrip and you are much more survivable. Add into that the propensity to use Blade Ward with an attack every single turn on a tough fight.

Yeah the build concept predates bladesinger. I thought it up around 2015/16.


Haste is the spike ability gfb and quicken 1 or twice a combat is more likely way it would be used.

Not claiming it's meta or anything.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Should work at most tables, I would think. Strong enough to run at an open table but thematic enough that no one thinks you're just minimaxing. Big GFB hits are fun, too.

If you're rolling for stats, you may be able to skip the hexblade dip by getting a 16 in both str and con out the gate.

Or, you could focus on booming blade and just not worry too much about charisma. In fact, there's actually quite a few synergies with sorcerer origin features to exploit on a gish if you can pick up weapon + armor proficiencies from elsewhere.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Long time ago I thought up a Sorcerer gish build. Basically a Mountain Dwarf dragon sorcerer using green flame blade and flaming sphere.

This was circa 2015/16. Wasn't particularly meta or anything but idea was 14-16 constitution a d the bonus hp from fire sorcerer, medium armor + shield spell.

Never saw it in play. With tashas and Xanathars though one can add hex blade into the mix and floating +2/+2 and racial armor + weapons.

If you are hexblade fire Genasi instead of mountain dwarf.


Elemental affinity+green flame blade and flaming sphere is interesting. At higher levels haste+ quickend green flame blade. 3 attacks a round with two of them being gfb.

If you're low on hp cycle back and be a normal sorcerer.

Anyway thoughts on the build?

Seems reasonable. Probably would want to go Sorcerer 1 (for that Con save prof)/Warlock 3 (for Blade Pact)/Sorcerer +X. Possibly Sorc 2 for sorcery points. You'll delay getting higher stats, but between the "coffee" sorcerer/warlock thing, SADness, eldritch blast/Agonizing Blast, and being able to use 2H pact weapons, you'll be a solid gish and the delayed stat bonuses shouldn't matter that much. Potentially going all the way to Warlock 5 is worth it for Thirsting Blade, but that's a harder sell. If only Sorcerer had a subclass with Extra Attack! Certainly you wouldn't want less than Warlock 2, because Agonizing Blast is well worth a two-level dip, and a third level isn't that much of a cost to pick up both a third Invocation and Pact of the Blade.

Elemental Affinity is certainly useful as a class feature, but also consider grabbing Elemental Adept if you're going to specialize in fire damage. War Caster is also nice but not critical. If you play some sort of elf (half-elf is especially nice because of the +2/+1/+1), always grab Elven Accuracy ASAP because it's the only feat in the game that is arguably better than Lucky.

Also, don't forget to make use of other Warlock spells beyond hex, like armor of Agathys, which is lovely for a gish character. Especially since it isn't a concentration spell. Between the extra AC and HP of Dragon magic, and the choice of either strong melee ability (greatsword) or higher defenses (rapier+shield), these can serve you extremely well, and any warlock slots you don't spend become (effectively) a free Quicken Spell.

 

[Zardnaar]

Should work at most tables, I would think. Strong enough to run at an open table but thematic enough that no one thinks you're just minimaxing. Big GFB hits are fun, too.

If you're rolling for stats, you may be able to skip the hexblade dip by getting a 16 in both str and con out the gate.

Or, you could focus on booming blade and just not worry too much about charisma. In fact, there's actually quite a few synergies with sorcerer origin features to exploit on a gish if you can pick up weapon + armor proficiencies from elsewhere.

Gfb you get double your charisma as a fire sorcerer at level 6+.

Mountain Dwarf was pre hexblade.

Basic idea was using flaming sphere and gfb combo with quicken and haste as options later.

Quicken kind of being an action surge

 

[Zardnaar]

Seems reasonable. Probably would want to go Sorcerer 1 (for that Con save prof)/Warlock 3 (for Blade Pact)/Sorcerer +X. Possibly Sorc 2 for sorcery points. You'll delay getting higher stats, but between the "coffee" sorcerer/warlock thing, SADness, eldritch blast/Agonizing Blast, and being able to use 2H pact weapons, you'll be a solid gish and the delayed stat bonuses shouldn't matter that much. Potentially going all the way to Warlock 5 is worth it for Thirsting Blade, but that's a harder sell. If only Sorcerer had a subclass with Extra Attack! Certainly you wouldn't want less than Warlock 2, because Agonizing Blast is well worth a two-level dip, and a third level isn't that much of a cost to pick up both a third Invocation and Pact of the Blade.

Elemental Affinity is certainly useful as a class feature, but also consider grabbing Elemental Adept if you're going to specialize in fire damage. War Caster is also nice but not critical. If you play some sort of elf (half-elf is especially nice because of the +2/+1/+1), always grab Elven Accuracy ASAP because it's the only feat in the game that is arguably better than Lucky.

Also, don't forget to make use of other Warlock spells beyond hex, like armor of Agathys, which is lovely for a gish character. Especially since it isn't a concentration spell. Between the extra AC and HP of Dragon magic, and the choice of either strong melee ability (greatsword) or higher defenses (rapier+shield), these can serve you extremely well, and any warlock slots you don't spend become (effectively) a free Quicken Spell.

Yeah had figured most of that out. Original idea was pure sorcerer.

2 levels or ore is kinda Sorlock territory more than this idea.