Sorcerer in need of Knowledge(Planes)

[Otterscrubber]

In my opinion sorceres often get chapped when it comes to preqs for PrCs(which I dont use often) as well as feats. Ok, so they are not an Int based class, doesn't mean they dont learn a lot dealing with the arcane every day. Why they dont get Knowledge skills reated to magic stuff, like summoning or planar stuff, I cant figure out. Even so they didn't really give them a lot of options with the Cha skills either? What is up with that?

Back when Tome and Blood came out the only obviously sorcere related PrC was the Dragon Disciple, quite possibly the lamest PrC in history. Why they have it in for sorcerers who want to mix it up with PrCs is a mystery to me.

 

[0-hr]

I was just rereading the Summoner PrC (R&R pg.20) and ran into some confusion.

It says

"the character gains a bonus spell, that must be used to prepare/cast a summoning spell of the highest level she may normally cast"

I'm not sure how that applies to a Sorcerer.

1) Is this "bonus spell" an extra Spell Known, and extra Spell per Day, both, or something else entirely?

If it's just an extra Spell per Day that has to be spent on Summon, (and only if you use one of your exisiting Spells Known to learn that Summon), then it seems rather weak indeed.

2) When you reach the end of Summoner, you have 5 of these bonus spells. Is that one each of IV through IX or is it five IX's? (in other words, do the bonus slots migrate up or stay at the level they were gained?)

 

[Knightcrawler]

I've always gone with Spells Known in cases like this. If it was just Spells per Day the PrC would be really weak and definitely not worth taking. But it is up to your DM.

 

[James McMurray]

It should definitely a bonus spell slot per day, to keep in line with what wizards gain (i.e. must be used to prepare a summons spell obviously points towards being a bonus spell slot).

We've always played it that the bonus slots do not migrate upwards.

To those saying that summoners are weak I have to say pshaw!

5 metamagic feats means you get empower, extend (don't qualify for persistent), maximize, quicken, and one other.

IIRC you also get higher level summon spells than a character of your actual level would have, and when you get 9th level spells you can do a pseudo-Summon Monster X by summoning multiple IX's.

Also IIRC, the metmagic feats you get are applied instantly, without alteration to the spell level, making them very nice indeed, since you can now maximize that SM X.

As I said though, this is all based on recollection, as I don't have the book with me.

 

[0-hr]

It should definitely a bonus spell slot per day

By Bonus Spell Slot do you mean an addiation Spell per Day of the given level?

The rest of what you recollect seems correct, but the bonus metamagic only applies to these "bonus" summoning spells. So as a 1st level summoner it's of no use at all. At the 2nd level of the PrC you could use it once per day.

 

[Nightfall]

And here comes the other problem I have with it. The wording on the extra spells is very poor. For my money, I'd consider using bonus spells per day because your known spells are severely limited. (Also I still believe this class was written with wizard in mind though god knows it should have had sorcerer in consideration too.) Consider it like having a domain spell, that would be my advice. It's separate BUT counts as your spell per day.

Also how the hell does one maximize and empower a summoning? New flash people. There are NO variables involved in summoning. You are summoning, not dealing damage or healing. So if someone can explain that to me, I'd be most appreciative.

Btw Knightcrawler, that used to be true for a while. But now thanks to Pr-classes like Blessed of Mesos, Angel Blooded, Seeker on the Winds, and even Voice of Sumara, sorcerers are now VERY much the equal of their wizardly brethren when it comes to Pr-classes that rock. Dragon Disciple has nothing on these guys. Anyway that's my two cents.

 

[likuidice]

isn't the hellian, in r & r 2, a sorcerer based prc? seeing as wizards are never inducted into the group. it also gets some pretty cool abilities. not that its a summoner, but it is sorcerer based.

 

[green slime]

Ask your DM if you can't switch some skills around?

 

[Otterscrubber]

Also how the hell does one maximize and empower a summoning? New flash people. There are NO variables involved in summoning. You are summoning, not dealing damage or healing. So if someone can explain that to me, I'd be most appreciative.

I beleive the variable that gets affected here is the HP of the creature summoned. You summon big, tough versions of the normal creatures. I could be wrong but that's my take.

 

[Gaiden]

Also how the hell does one maximize and empower a summoning? New flash people. There are NO variables involved in summoning. You are summoning, not dealing damage or healing. So if someone can explain that to me, I'd be most appreciative.

Review your summon spells. If you use a summon spell to summon a creature from a lower level summon spell you can summon 1d3 or 1d4+1. A free maximize or empower is a very nice thing.

However, what about twin or repeat spell from T&B (I realize this is not SL stuff) but in general, that is the way I would go. Repeat is especially nice.