sorcerers

[Angel of Adventure]

Homebrewed Sorcerer Changes

For my Epic game, I decided that Sorcerers needed some tweaking to keep up with their Wizard counterparts at higher levels. I wanted to give them a bit more control over their powers. So far, the Sorceress PC has been OK with these, though it will take a few more levels to see how they really shape up. Anyway, here they are and I welcome comments.

Every level, sorcerers get the following bonuses, in addition to what is in the PHB.

1) Switch out d3+1 known spells of any level you can cast, or
2) Switch out (d3+1)/2 feats you know for new metamagic feats.

Starting from 1st Level -
Adding metamagic is a standard action. (I think its BS that this class can't quicken spells!)
Choice of either Eschew materials or a Familiar.

Later,

AoA

 

[Thanee]

(I would make adding metamagic a move action rather, but I guess that's what you meant.)

And just add Eschew Materials for free at 1st and a bonus metamagic feat every 5th level.
Also, swapping one spell each level is probably enough.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Denaes]

Except that what he said was not accurate.

Wizards are NOT flexible.

Sorcerers are flexible.

Wizards are versatile.

There is a major difference.

Ok, you summed up what I was getting at a few posts ago in four easy to read sentances.

Thank you

 

[Merlion]

Except that what he said was not accurate.

Wizards are NOT flexible.

Sorcerers are flexible.

Wizards are versatile.

There is a major difference.


The tactic of putting up a Silence spell up around a Sorcerer who has the Silent Spell feat does not work well because it does not stop him from casting.

The tactic of putting up a Silence spell up around a Wizard who has the Silent Spell feat does work well because it can often stop him from casting.


Dr. Awkward has it backwards. Sorcerers are flexible, Wizards are not. Wizards are versatile, Sorcerers are not.

This is simply degernated into semantics. Flexible, versatile, in common usage mean basically the same thing.

A disadvantage the sorcerer does not share

No, the Sorcerer can just pick the wrong spells to *know*, which is more or less for good.

You don't have the ability to change which spells you can draw from, but you have the ultimate ability in choosing how to choose which spells you use for your spells per day. Yes, there is disadvantage here, but advantage as well.

But the thing is, in this case the disadvantage mostly negates the advantage. That ultimate ability in chosing which spells to use for spells per day isnt that helpful when you have next to no spells to choose from.

He cannot change the pool of spells from which he draws, but he can change how he uses that pool. The wizard cannot.

Yea, he can. Just not as much...but in most cases, the difference isnt going to come down to much, especially in the case of situations where time is actually an issue. Especially because the Sorcerer's pool is *so* small, especially as far as his best spells at any given time.

Only when he is prepared

Not when he is unprepared

No...when totally unprepared (as unlikely as that is to happen, or truly matter) they might actually be totally *even*. The Sorcerer isnt at an advantage, but merely some of the Wizards advantage has been reduced, rendering them even.






Theres not really a lot to do about this though. If you gave Sorcerers enough spells known to solve the problem, they would probably be overpowered.


Thats why I say, if you want both leave the casting and all the same, but give the Sorcerer some additional class abilities to make up for his slightly inferior magical ability. Do the bloodlines...let Sorcerers get 3 or 4 low to med powered class features related to a theme. Wizards will still be better mages (which I dont really have a problem with) but Sorcerers will actually have compensation for their inferiority in that area, and it will actually make them into truly seperate classes, instead of one being a variant of the other.

 

[Thanee]

This is simply degernated into semantics. Flexible, versatile, in common usage mean basically the same thing.

That's why I called them 'tactical flexibility' and 'strategical versatility' in my post a bit further above, to make the difference more clear.

But the thing is, in this case the disadvantage mostly negates the advantage. That ultimate ability in chosing which spells to use for spells per day isnt that helpful when you have next to no spells to choose from.

That's only really a problem at the lower levels, at higher levels there are plenty choices to choose from.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Merlion]

That's only really a problem at the lower levels, at higher levels there are plenty choices to choose from

Not compared to a Wizard, or a Cleric or a Druid.

And especially not of your highest level spells.

Take 6th level spells for instance. A Sorcerer doesnt get them till 12th level. At that point you know one, and only one. You have to wait a level to learn another one. And then you have to wait a total of three levels since gaining access to them to learn a third one.

A 12th level Wizard already knows 4 6th level spells, and has had access to them since 11th level. When the Sorcerer is learning his 2nd 6th level spell, the Wizard has learned 2 7th level spells. And when a Sorcerer knows 3 6th level spells and 2 7th level ones, the Wizard has learned a total of 4 7th level spells, and just gained access to 2 8th level spells.


And all that is fine for the Bard, because the Bard isnt a primary spellcaster who's ONLY class feature is spells. But the Sorcerer is. So he either needs more spells (which probably wouldnt work) or needs another class feature or features.

 

[Thanee]

Knowing only one spell of the highest level becomes less and less of a problem the higher level you become. At 12th level, 5th and 4th level spells, especially once you add metamagic into the mix, are about as useful, sometimes even moreso. You just need to pick spells very carefully.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Merlion]

Knowing only one spell of the highest level becomes less and less of a problem the higher level you become. At 12th level, 5th and 4th level spells, especially once you add metamagic into the mix, are about as useful, sometimes even moreso.

Bye
Thanee

But its still an imbalance. The Wizard, and the Cleric and even the Druid generally end up being better, more useful spellcasters.

Thats why the PH basically says a Sorcerer doesnt cut the mustard as the party spellcaster.


The difference isnt huge, and some times doesnt come up at all...but its there.


The Sorcerer was tacked on to the game because they wanted to give people a non-preparing spellcaster. But they didnt really examine the whole deal enough to make it work. They gave us a spontaneous Wizard...a caster who has nothing but spells.

I just dont think a class like that can be fully competitve and balanced in standard DND. They have to have something else, because you cant have just magic balanced without preperation in D&D.


Of course I was wrong before about my solution. My real solution to the issue is to use the Arcana Unearthed/Evolved magic system and classes (mostly)...

 

[Thanee]

HERE is a sorcerer variant I had written up and changed a few times. Never really tried it, but it 'fixes' the spell progression table by giving them standard access to new levels at odd levels, just like wizards, and also gives them slightly more beneficial spells known.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

But its still an imbalance. The Wizard, and the Cleric and even the Druid generally end up being better, more useful spellcasters.

Both, the cleric's and the druid's spellcasting are not even a close match for the sorcerer's spell power IME. All in all, these classes are superior, of course, given their other benefits, but their spellcasting cannot match up.

Thats why the PH basically says a Sorcerer doesnt cut the mustard as the party spellcaster.

I just dont think a class like that can be fully competitve and balanced in standard DND. They have to have something else, because you cant have just magic balanced without preperation in D&D.

Works pretty fine in our campaign, where we currently play City of the Spider Queen with my sorceress being the primary spellcaster (we had a cleric for some time, until he died, and we have a mystic theurge now). She does not even use evocation spells much (her prohibited school since 7th level).

I can remember only very, very few occasions, where she could not do something really productive with her spells, but I can remember quite a few of them, where her spells saved the entire party or made a huge difference.

When going back to playing a wizard (in a PbP) after having played a sorcerer for a long time, I really noticed how damn inflexible they are compared to sorcerers.

Bye
Thanee