Sorceror in current edition worse than wizard?

[guido1999]

By your reasoning then, summon spells would occur at tyhe end of the PCs current action, not at the beginning of his next action.

Explain to me why casting a summon spell, which is by definition a full round action happens at the beginning of the next turn while a sorceror casting a metamagic spell, also a full round action, happens during the current turn?

Why does the summon full round action take longer than the metamagic full round action?

It states it in black and white that casting a full round spell is a full round action and vice-versa. And whenever the spell you are casting takes a full round action, it happens at the beginning of your next turn.

 

[Bauglir]

Because summoning spells have a casting time of 1 full round, and not a full-round action *rummages through SRD*

SRD:
Summon Monster I

Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 full round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

IMO the term 'full-round action' is at the core of the problem. It might have caused a lot less confusion if it had been called a 'full-initiative action'

 

[Fenes 2]

Can someone with a search function please drag out the numerous threads on this subject?

 

[Benben]

Would a link to the sage advice answer to this dead horse work instead of a search?

 

[apsuman]

This is my first post in this thread and it might be too late to actually add anything to the debate but here goes.

I don't like BBB, because of that whole "freely" thing. Spell costs and scribing times are balance factors for the wizard.

Having been around this board for (is it 3 years now?) a while, the whole full round actoin debate has happened over and over. The consensus is that the sorcerer gets his spell off on his turn and can still take a 5 foot step.

Metamagic rocks for a sorcerer in ways that is can not for a wizard. At 18th level a heightened (to 9th level) Charm person is still a threat to a low will save human of the same level (like an 18th level fighter). An enlarged (or double enlarged) grease can be fun at all levels of play. Empower (especially multiple times) is a great boon to sorcerers.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but with Still a sorcerer could wear full plate armor and use a shield and cast everyone of his spells at +1 level. Meaning the only thing he loses are his highest level spells.

There are a few things I would do to change the sorcerer. Add a few (like 2) bonus feats over the first 20 levels. Increase the number of known 3rd, 4th and 5th level spells by 1 each.

The key to a sorcerer is to make the maximum utility of all spells and metamagic does that. Web can slow down EVERYBODY and with enlarge or widen it can cover EVERYTHING.

I think both wizards and sorcerers are fine classes as is and are fairly well balanced relative to each other. I prefer the sorcerer but YMMV.

g!

 

[guido1999]

Ok. If Mr. Williams stated that then I'll conceed my point. However, the wording of the summon spell (not to mention all spells that have a casting time of one full round, like Blade barrier, etc.) and the description of a casting a full round spell in SRD, are contradictory.

If a spell's casting time is 1 full round, and the SRD states that this is a full round action, and then further states that the spell goes off at the beginning of the players next action, my question is: Why does this full round action take longer to cast than a metamagic full round action?

Sorry about the hijacking...my original intent was to further debate the wizard vs. sorceror topic. I have removed comments on the casting time of meatmagic spells in order to get us back on topic.

 

[Fenes 2]

Because a spell with a casting time of one full round uses a full round action, but does not go off until right before the next round's action of the caster, while a metamagicked spell only uses a full round action.

A full round action does not take, as illustrated by the fighter's full attack, a full round to complete, it just uses up all the characters actions but for a 5 foot step.

 

[Fenes 2]

Would a link to the sage advice answer to this dead horse work instead of a search?

Thanks a ton!

 

[guido1999]

But that still doesn't answer the question. BOTH take full round actions. Why are some (summons, BB, etc.) ruled to happen at the beginning of the next turn, and others (metamagics) are conceeded to happen on the current turn?

 

[Zhure]

But that still doesn't answer the question. BOTH take full round actions. Why are some (summons, BB, etc.) ruled to happen at the beginning of the next turn, and others (metamagics) are conceeded to happen on the current turn?

A full round action (like a full iterative attack, using an offhand weapon, flurry of blows) is distinct from a full round spell (Summon Monster X). The first is a metamagicked spell for a sorcerer, bard or spontaneous-casting cleric using a metamagicked cure spell. The second is a spell that doesn't come into effect until the caster's action on the next round.

Greg