[Sorta OT] There's a Viking campaign setting in here somewhere...

[Desdichado]

Hey, anyone ever read Constance Irwin's Strange Footprints in the Land? It's a bit of an older book, but it rather provocatively suggests, with strong (albeit circumstantial) evidence that the Viking presence in the America was much more prolonged and profound than traditional history would have you believe.

My first thought on this was; here's a great setting for a game (or a historical novel, for that matter). Thinking on it later, I decided that I didn't really want the real Vikings in the real America, I wanted a fictitious, legendary, "Golden Age" of the Vikings establishing colonies on the coasts of Labrador, New England, and even up the rivers possibly as far as the Great Lakes at the same time the Vikings were establishing the Rus along with local Slavs, founding Dublin amongst the Irish, and mixing with the Scottish especially in the Hebrides, Orkneys and Shetlands to form the galloglas warrior class -- all things that really happened, but not at the same time. Because I want a legendary "history" I don't have to be tied to actual geography and history too much, just capture the same feel as the legendary norse.

Does this sound interesting? Has anyone read the book even?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Come to think of it, a game setting focussing on the conflict between the vikings and the Iriquois and/or other tribes of the Atlantic coast could be quite interesting.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, Irwin suggests that at least some of the contact was friendly rather than straight conflict (Algonquian languages seem to feature a number of Norse loanwords, for example, and Indians played lacrosse, which is essentially a Skandinavian game.) But there could be all kinds of fun conflicts, especially if you pull ahead the spread of the Iroquois confederation into Viking days.

 

[coyote6]

One of the settings in GURPS Alternate Earths (I, I think, but it might be II) includes something like this.

I like the scenario; whenever Ken Hite starts talking about a D&D game set on Earth, this is one of the ideas I start thinking about.

 

[Wombat]

Personally I like the Ars Magica book Ultima Thule for this, but that is non-D20.

 

[Desdichado]

Two things: shouldn't Ultima Thule be about Greenland and Eskimos, at best? Or do the Ars Magica folks not know what Thule means? Also; I'm not really looking for gaming supplements, d20 or otherwise, for this. There's enough historical "supplements" in print about the Algonquians and the Vikings and the geography of Eastern North America to do the job just fine.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Just be sure to mine Tournaments, Fairs, & Taverns as well as the Taverner's Trusty Tome for the requisite rules on swilling mead.

No, seriously, I like this idea. The Vikings are the perfect real-world D&D culture, anyway: violent and adventurous. Some ideas are starting to form in my brain....

 

[med stud]

Yeah, Irwin suggests that at least some of the contact was friendly rather than straight conflict (Algonquian languages seem to feature a number of Norse loanwords, for example, and Indians played lacrosse, which is essentially a Skandinavian game.) But there could be all kinds of fun conflicts, especially if you pull ahead the spread of the Iroquois confederation into Viking days.

I dont know if this is real, but I heard somewhere that the Vikings at a point gave an important indian chief and his men milk to drink. Since indians very often are lactose intolerant, the indians became very ill and thought the vikings were trying to poison them and attacked.

It doesnt sound, true, but it'd be funny if it was

 

[Wombat]

Two things: shouldn't Ultima Thule be about Greenland and Eskimos, at best? Or do the Ars Magica folks not know what Thule means? Also; I'm not really looking for gaming supplements, d20 or otherwise, for this. There's enough historical "supplements" in print about the Algonquians and the Vikings and the geography of Eastern North America to do the job just fine.

**ahem**

The phrase "Ultima Thule" pre-dates the viking culture. It was used by the Romans to describe lands to the far north, based on concepts handed to them by the Greeks. Only later (18th or 19th century, I believe) was this phrase handed over to describe the viking attempts to settle further west.

**close ahem**

As for the Algonquians (especially of the time you are referring to), there is precious little non-gaming material in print on them. I would love to know more, but the literature tends to be hyper-specialized, mainly by historians and anthropoligists.

 

[Krieg]

Hey, anyone ever read Constance Irwin's Strange Footprints in the Land? It's a bit of an older book, but it rather provocatively suggests, with strong (albeit circumstantial) evidence that the Viking presence in the America was much more prolonged and profound than traditional history would have you believe.

This is a bit off topic, but I got a chuckle out of this.

It wasn't that long ago that "traditional" history didn't even account for Scandinavians being in pre-Columbus North America at all.