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Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
The cold + fire = shattering death part is "realistic", certainly, but I don't know how well it'll work in modern (okay, slightly older than modern) D&D. It's like the opposite of a tactical feat.
 

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Shade

Monster Junkie
Let's figure out ability scores.

A standard troll has Str 23, Dex 14, Con 23, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6

These guys are said to be less agile, but appear to have +2 greater damage than a 2e troll. Int is the same. I could see a bit higher Con due to being slightly bigger and seemingly more durable.

So maybe Str 27, Dex 10, Con 25, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6?

I could see dropping Dex to 8, too.
 


Shade

Monster Junkie
Added to Homebrews.

Their skin is hard, rocky, and is colored to provide camouflage in their natural habitat. Stone trolls gain this coloration by ingesting rocks and stones common to their territory, assimilating the minerals into their skin. Because of this coloration, they have a 75% chance of remaining unseen by casual observation when against a rocky background, and can attack by surprise with a -3 penalty to the victim's surprise roll.
Racial bonus on Hide checks made in rocky environments?

Due to their rock-hard claws, they are able to successfully scale any stone or earth surface. Because metal blunts their claws and wood splinters beneath their claws, stone trolls have only a 35% chance of climbing such surfaces.
Racial bonus on climb checks on stone/earth surfaces and racial penalty on other surfaces?

On the other hand, they thoroughly enjoy pulverizing enemies with thrown boulders. A stone troll can throw two stones per round up to 35 yards away for 2d8 damage each.
Round to 100 feet for thrown rocks?

Its highly mineral nature makes a stone troll a slow regenerator, but it is also very difficult to hurt. They regenerate one hit point per round beginning on the second round after being wounded.
Regeneration 1?

Due to their rocky skin, they suffer half damage from all edged weapons and their limbs aren't easily severed.
Damage reduction 10/bludgeoning?

If cut off with a vorpal blade or sword of sharpness, the limb dies immediately, but the body will continue to fight, even headless, as long as it has one attack. If the head and both arms are lost, the torso attempts to flee.
Anything special we want to do with that?

Stone trolls are immune to all rock-affecting spells and take half damage from fire/heat, cold, and electrical attacks and may regenerate all such damage.
Resistance to cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10?

Wounds from acid-based attacks cannot be regenerated. If a stone troll is struck by both fire/heat and cold attacks in a single round, it takes double normal damage (no save) from the second attack and must make a save vs. paralyzation at -3. If it fails, its rocky body shatters due to the extreme temperature shifts, forever dead. Even if it does save and survives, the damage from the two attacks cannot be regenerated.
This probably is too odd for 3e, although it might be fun to try to make it work.
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
I think we should cut the stuff about attacking without a head. Also, I don't think we should give them a racial penalty when not climbing stone.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
This probably is too odd for 3e, although it might be fun to try to make it work.
You might be right there...on both counts. I think we might need to look at each of these unusual things you have brought up one at a time.

demiurge1138 said:
I think we should cut the stuff about attacking without a head.
I can buy a monster that can live (for a while) without its head, but I'd expect it to attempt to grab its head and retreat...or perhaps surrender on condition that it was allowed to get its head back. Abandoning the head just means starvation. (However, I think a creature needs to be able to communicate between its head and body to carry on fighting.)

demiurge1138 said:
Also, I don't think we should give them a racial penalty when not climbing stone.
Well, Shade pointed out two things:

Shade said:
Racial bonus on Hide checks made in rocky environments?
...and...

Shade said:
Racial bonus on climb checks on stone/earth surfaces and racial penalty on other surfaces?
Maybe they could have the hide skill and the climbing skill and get a racial bonus to checks involving stone and earth environments.

Having a plus, with no minus, is a bit "Pathfinder"-ish (or 4th edition-ish), but I think it is similar to a dwarf's stone cunning. So I think it could work.
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
Big Mac said:
Maybe they could have the hide skill and the climbing skill and get a racial bonus to checks involving stone and earth environments.

Having a plus, with no minus, is a bit "Pathfinder"-ish (or 4th edition-ish), but I think it is similar to a dwarf's stone cunning. So I think it could work.
That strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. Name a monster in the 3.5 Monster Manual with a racial penalty on a skill check. I think you'll find they're few and far between.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
demiurge1138 said:
That strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. Name a monster in the 3.5 Monster Manual with a racial penalty on a skill check. I think you'll find they're few and far between.
I'll take you word for it on that. It sounds like you have checked them all.

Anyway, do you think a stat bonus for hiding and climbing in environments involving stone and earth would sort out this issue? If you do we can move on to the next problem. If you don't we will need to find another way to do it.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'll gloss over the posts between and just comment on the suggestions as I go through.

Shade said:
Racial bonus on Hide checks made in rocky environments?

Racial bonus on climb checks on stone/earth surfaces and racial penalty on other surfaces?
I'm kind of in favor of Big Mac's suggestion: racial bonus to Hide & Climb only in rocky environments. We could also go with a +4 bonus to Climb increased to +8 in stone environments.

Round to 100 feet for thrown rocks?
Sounds good.

Regeneration 1?
Lethal damage done by acid, yes.

Damage reduction 10/bludgeoning?
Yes, and the number sounds right too.

Anything special we want to do with that?
I think the consensus is no.

Resistance to cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10?
Sure thing.

This probably is too odd for 3e, although it might be fun to try to make it work.
Hmmm....

Thermal Instability (Ex): If a stone troll takes both fire and cold damage (beyond its resistance value) within a single round (counted from its turn in initiative order), the stone troll must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to 10+the total of the damage it suffered from the fire and cold) or be immediately destroyed, shattering into countless stone fragments.
 



demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
Climb 7, Spot 6. Do we want to give them a racial bonus to hide in stony environments and/or camouflage like a gargoyle?
 



Shade

Monster Junkie
Can we go +8 for Hide in rocky areas? Otherwise, at Large with no ranks and no Dex modifier, it is already at a -4. Since it used to be able to suprise 75% of the time, I'm thinking a total bonus of +4 (-4 size, +0 Dex, +8 racial) is closer to the orginal intent. Thoughts?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That's ok with me, sure. We can also swap some ranks into Hide; I don't see a big argument for Spot, in particular.
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Point Blank Shot, Quick Draw?
Environment looks good.
tribe (20-30 plus 1d4 7th-level shamans and one 10th-level chieftain)
CR 8?
3000 lb? What are we filling in about the skin? Gray and pebbly?
Giant and a pidgin form of Common.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Most of that looks good!

freyar said:
That may be a bit high, despite the pebbles in their skin. The 17-foot cave giant only weighs 4,000 pounds, and the equal-height crystalline troll weighs only 600 pounds. How about 1,000?

freyar said:
What are we filling in about the skin? Gray and pebbly?
I left room for color variations, but I'm not sure if we need any.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
I left room for color variations, but I'm not sure if we need any.
I would guess they would have a natural colour (if scrubbed) but that would be burried under a layer of dirt. If these guys pick up dirt an small stones in their skin, wouldn't colour vary according to terrain they live in?
 

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