Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Sounds good!

Your suggested environment is fine.

I can go for your proposed skills, too.

Nothing really strikes me as a really great feat. I could pick from Power Attack, Dodge, Ability Focus (hypnotism), or maybe a skill-booster. Or maybe something else. Any thoughts?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Sounds good!
Does that include the calling the hypnotic ability Mesmirism?

Your suggested environment is fine.

I can go for your proposed skills, too.
Updating Arcanus Ape Working Draft.

Nothing really strikes me as a really great feat. I could pick from Power Attack, Dodge, Ability Focus (hypnotism), or maybe a skill-booster. Or maybe something else. Any thoughts?
Well let's see, SRD Apes and Dire Apes have Alertness and Toughness - one of which its got and the other of which is a poor pick. Girallons have Iron Will and double down on Toughness.

That Iron Will gives me an idea. How about Great Fortitude to compensate for the poor Will Fort save of a Monstrous Humanoid?

For the other feat I'd go for a combat-booster. Either Multiattack, Power Attack or Weapon Focus (claw).
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, mesmirism works.

Let's do Great Fort and I guess Multiattack.

How about we give the troupe 1-8 apes?

The original Professor Arcanus is CG, so we should probably go with that for alignment, though you could persuade me otherwise.

Advancement by character class?

CR 4? They're maybe a bit better than the wereboar, but not as strong as a weretiger.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Yes, mesmirism works.
I appear to have let a typo slip in - it should be Mesmerism.

Let's do Great Fort and I guess Multiattack.
Upon reflection, there's no mention in the original text of arcanus ever creating other lycanthropes and the only time it describes him fighting he just knocked down a pair of watchmen which suggests he might favour just punching people. Furthermore, the original text says his gorilla form attacks with "blows from his savage fists".

So how about changing the gorilla form's claw attacks to slam attacks and giving him Weapon Focus (slam).

How about we give the troupe 1-8 apes?
Works for me.

Updating Arcanus Ape Working Draft.

The original Professor Arcanus is CG, so we should probably go with that for alignment, though you could persuade me otherwise.
Well the original character was a rapist so he can't be that "good" a CG. It was due to that "crime of passion" Arcanus was cursed to become a weregorilla.

That said, in Werebeasts he does willingly seek to team up with the PCs to hunt a vampire suggesting a certain amount of bravery and willingness to fight evil. (Although it was partially self-serving since he was accused of being a vampire by the aforementioned watchmen after he "aped out" and beat them up. The watchmen were investigating a double murder that was actually done by a vampire that used to be one of Arcanus's exhibits until the murder victims snuck into his carney show after hours show and pulled out its stake.).

How about "Always chaotic, often good"?

Advancement by character class?
Yup. that's what I was thinking too.

Hit Dice Advancement seems a bit awkward. Especially if it included a size change - it'd have been hard for Professor Arcanus to explain why he's twice the size of his "fellow humans".

CR 4? They're maybe a bit better than the wereboar, but not as strong as a weretiger.
Yes, a Wereboar's combat stats are pretty close so matching the CR makes sense.

Updating Arcanus Ape Working Draft.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Weapon Focus (slam) instead of Multiattack is good with me!

You know what, I think, given all that, I'd go with "Always CN." Does that work for you?

Tactics in brief: uses Mesmerism when it can avoid combat, otherwise shifts to ape form, howls, and charges into melee. Sound good?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Weapon Focus (slam) instead of Multiattack is good with me!

You know what, I think, given all that, I'd go with "Always CN." Does that work for you?
Sure.

Updating Arcanus Ape Working Draft.

Tactics in brief: uses Mesmerism when it can avoid combat, otherwise shifts to ape form, howls, and charges into melee. Sound good?
An arcanus ape in human form often tries to use diplomacy or its mesmerism power to avoid combat, but if it does fight an arcanus ape tends to shift into gorilla form while using its howl special attack and then charge into melee. Arcanus apes are not adverse to fleeing from battle if the situation calls for it and retain their full human intelligence in gorilla form.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Considering incidents in the original adventure, I'm wondering about adding the following to the Alternate Form SQ.

If an arcanus ape in human form experiences a primitive emotional stimulus such as the heat of battle, rage, hatred, or even love, the arcanus ape must succeed at a Control Shape check or involuntarily assume animal form. The Control Shape check's difficulty ranges from DC 15 for a regular situation to DC 25 for a particularly provocative one.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Why did I think I'd replied to this before?

Anyway, I like the tactics, though I think "adverse" should be "averse."

The Control Shape checks make sense. Do you want to put in the usual lycanthrope "if damaged too much" bit? I think I can go for it as you have it, actually.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Why did I think I'd replied to this before?

Anyway, I like the tactics, though I think "adverse" should be "averse."
Well I think both words are acceptable, so I have no objection to changing it to averse.

Updating Arcanus Ape Working Draft.

The Control Shape checks make sense. Do you want to put in the usual lycanthrope "if damaged too much" bit? I think I can go for it as you have it, actually.
So shall we change the first sentence to "If an arcanus ape in human form takes damage or experiences a primitive emotional stimulus such as pain, rage, hatred, or even love; the arcanus ape must succeed at a Control Shape check or involuntarily assume animal form."?

EDIT: Upon reflection, maybe "lust" works better than "love" since it matches the original background better.
 
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Cleon

Adventurer
How's this for the Description and Background:

A snarling hairy beast dressed in torn remnants of clothes. Barrel-chested and muscular, it walks on two legs like a human but is covered in thick dark fur and has an apelike face distorted by murderous fury.

Arcanus apes are a rare form of shapeshifter that most sages consider a variety of lycanthrope. When provoked by injury or strong passions they turn into savage carnivorous apes who hunger for flesh and violence. Their "normal" form appears to be an intelligent and civilized humanoid native to their homeland (although this may be an act to deter suspicion). In this form they have the power to mesmerise humanoids into following their suggestions. An arcanus ape usually lives as an itinerant merchant, traveling entertainer or peddler since a stationary career carries too much risk of exposing their simian alter-ego. The origins of this monster are obscure, the oldest known example was a human cursed to become a beast as punishment for a crime of passion.

In its default humanoid form an arcanus ape has the same height and weight as a human (although they tend to be short and stocky). In ape form the arcanus's height remains the same but its weight doubles.

[I also considered "its weight increases by 50%" but "doubles" puts the ape form's average weight at 350 pounds which is also the average weight of the SRD Ape (since they're 300-400 pounds)]
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Let's go with your proposal for Control Shape with "lust" rather than 'love."

I like the description and background! I think if we go with that and remove the question mark from the alignment, they're done!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Come to think of it, remember this old post:

I'm tempted to make this a shapeshifting monster like we did for the Sheneya and Meeka which also originated from this source.

A standard SRD template lycanthrope would lack the interesting special abilities.

That said, I would also be game to stat up a Wereape, Weregorilla or even a Werechimpanzee for the sake of the exercise.
I actually worked out the stats for a standard lycanthrope Wereape, so we might as well add them to the CC. They just need some flavour text added.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Wereape (Ape & Dire Ape Lycanthropes)

Wereape, Human Form
Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 4d8+12 (38 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 natural, +3 studded leather armor), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+5
Attack: Battleaxe +6 melee (1d8+1/×3); or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Battleaxe +6 melee (1d8+1/×3); or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +3
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +9, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +5, Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Wereape, Ape Form
Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 4d8+12 (38 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+14
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+6)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+6) and bite +4 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, damage reduction 10/silver, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +14, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +10, Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Wereape, Hybrid Form
Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 4d8+12 (38 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+14
Attack: Battleaxe +10 melee (2d6+6/×3); or claw +9 melee (1d6+6); or javelin +5 ranged (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Battleaxe +10 melee (2d6+6/×3) and claw +4 melee (1d6+3) and bite +4 melee (1d8+3); or 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+6) and bite +4 melee (1d8+3); or javelin +5 ranged (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, damage reduction 10/silver, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +14, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +10, Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Environment:
Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, family (3-4), or troupe (2-4 plus 3-5 apes)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +3

A hulking ape at least half again as tall as a tall human. It wears rags of clothing torn to shreds by being forced upon a body far too large for them to fit.

Wereapes in humanoid form tend to be heavily built and barrel-chested. While normal wereapes are violent creatures who may attack with little provocation or just out of hunger for meat, those with dire apes as their base animal are murderously territorial and known man-eaters. Statistics for the dire ape version are presented below.

The wereape presented here is a 1st-level human warrior and natural lycanthrope, using the following base ability scores: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

Combat
Wereapes rely on their brute strength to rend opponents into pieces and often employ ambush tactics. They almost always fight in hybrid form, which appears almost identical to their ape form. These cunning creatures often retreat if combat turns against them only to return to attack again when the situation is more advantageous.

Alternate Form (Su): A wereape can assume the form of an ape or an ape-humanoid hybrid.

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a wereape’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy.

Ape Empathy (Ex): A wereape can communicate with any animal of the ape family, including apes, dire apes and gorillas. A wereape also has a +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against apes.

Skills: Wereapes have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


Dire Wereape, Human Form
Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 5d8+15 (46 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 natural, +3 studded leather armor), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+5
Attack: Battleaxe +6 melee (1d8+1/×3); or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Battleaxe +6 melee (1d8+1/×3); or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +6
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +9, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +5, Listen +6, Move Silently +2, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Dire Wereape, Ape Form

Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 5d8+15 (46 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 15 ft.
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+15
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+7)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +10 melee (1d6+7) and bite +5 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy, rend 2d6+10
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, damage reduction 10/silver, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +14, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +10, Listen +6, Move Silently +4, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Dire Wereape, Hybrid Form

Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 plus 5d8+15 (46 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+15
Attack: Battleaxe +11 melee (2d6+7/×3); or claw +10 melee (1d6+7); or javelin +5 ranged (1d8+7)
Full Attack: Battleaxe +11 melee (2d6+7/×3) and claw +5 melee (1d6+3) and bite +5 melee (1d8+3); or 2 claws +10 melee (1d6+7) and bite +5 melee (1d8+3); or javelin +5 ranged (1d8+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy
Special Qualities: Alternate form, ape empathy, damage reduction 10/silver, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +14, Handle Animal +3*, Intimidate +3*, Jump +10, Listen +7, Move Silently +4, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

Environment:
Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, family (3-4), or troupe (2-4 plus 3-5 apes)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +3

SKILL BREAKDOWN:
Human Skills (12 SPs):
Handle Animal 4, Intimidate 4, Jump 4
Ape Skills (8 SPs): Listen 4, Spot 4
Dire Ape Skills (10 SPs): Listen 4, Move Silently 2, Spot 4
 
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Cleon

Adventurer
I've updated the Wereape and Dire Wereape above with a description, background and tactics. It's basically ready to go if we decide to add it to the Creature Catalog.

Well it's almost good to go. The Dire version needs another feat since it has 6 Hit Dice but I was undecided what to give it. Power Attack seems the obvious albeit unimaginative option. Heck I'll just edit it in…

Note that I used the standard Lycanthrope template for the Dire Ape version rather than the CC's Dire Lycanthrope template. If you'd rather we use that it's a simple matter of adding Multiattack as a bonus feat.
 

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