Spell Path

[Greenfield]

May I point out that D&D rules make no adjustment for hitting (or missing) a moving object? Technically, the only problem with shooting an arrow out of the air is the size modifier. So while the people in the way may be moving (which essentially makes the open area you need to shoot through "move"), that doesn't really make it any harder to hit the target.

 

[Celebrim]

The difference here is you are firing through an arrow slit that has fan blades intermittently moving inside. They are not on any timed pattern either. SO you are looking for an opening and hoping you don't hit a random body, arm, leg, shield, weapon and so forth. SO the AC 5 would not be where you would start here.

Ok, for the last time, no.

AC 5 versus an inanimate object. Say -4 penalty for partial cover, and another -4 penalty for firing into a melee - equivalent to hitting about an AC 13. That's about reasonable per the rules.

Any further than that and we have to just admit that it isn't a matter of rules, it's a matter of the DM just not wanting the players to succeed by DM fiat.

 

[Frostbiter01]

Any further than that and we have to just admit that it isn't a matter of rules, it's a matter of the DM just not wanting the players to succeed by DM fiat.

I would say no we are not DMing by Fiat we have NC casters and hold them to the same standard. Just saying that each type would be by circumstances including the -4 for melee and -4 for blocking. So not saying we are that far off but I would think it would be higher so that the 14th level still only needs a 1 to miss but lower levels are more likely to hit the creatures in front of them. Again I think your way of thinking works well just maybe added one more modifier than you did.

 

[Greenfield]

Simple question: What penalty would an archer suffer, firing through that crowd?

By the book, you count the bodies, moving or not, as cumulative cover and give a miss chance.

Why wouldn't you use the same rules, and apply the same penalty, to the spell caster?

 

[Frostbiter01]

Simple question: What penalty would an archer suffer, firing through that crowd?

By the book, you count the bodies, moving or not, as cumulative cover and give a miss chance.

Why wouldn't you use the same rules, and apply the same penalty, to the spell caster?

I will take a look at that way too. One of these way will work better than we have been doing. I know one of them (the Lawyer) will probably say was this an authoritative source that said to do it this way but it seems to be most fair for them and the creatures I have to run which in the upcoming field battle this will be needed as mages try to cast spells though ranks of their men clashing in front of them.

 

[Greenfield]

Of course, for AoE spells like Fireball, they don't have to cast through the crowd. They can cast over at least part of it. Air bursts work, after all.

<Tangent>
One thing I miss from earlier editions: Archery ranges used to be reduced indoors. Arrows don't follow a flat trajectory, they arch (hence the word "Archery"). The farther the shot the higher the center of the arc has to be. The presence of a ceiling effectively caps the range by capping the height of that arc.

Of course in 1e and 2e, Fireball spells had a fixed volume, and would keep expanding outward, filling rooms and following corridors until the full volume was reached. (33,000 cubic feet, indoors, 33,000 cubic yards outdoors.) In game terms that's 33 10x10x10 squares, which means an unexpectedly closed door can just ruin a spell caster's day. </Tangent>

 

[Frostbiter01]

Of course, for AoE spells like Fireball, they don't have to cast through the crowd. They can cast over at least part of it. Air bursts work, after all.

Outdoors won't be to bad but we have a spherical globe and hey like to keep the spell at shoulder level to get the full range. But they are aware of the 20'r meaning spherical in nature. as for trying to hit the commanders in the back just behind he line of men I can use some of these formulas to determine placement.

Yes we remember the volume exercise but then again it was all based on the DM describing what happened. Not a Grid map in the middle of the table so they can count exactly what squares will be effected such as to just have it explode around all 3 of their characters and not burn a one. They just did that not long ago. The template was placed down and the Ranger and dwarf on one side and the rogue on the other were never in the blast. Some how they got all 3 trolls though!

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The difference here is you are firing through an arrow slit that has fan blades intermittently moving inside. They are not on any timed pattern either. SO you are looking for an opening and hoping you don't hit a random body, arm, leg, shield, weapon and so forth. SO the AC 5 would not be where you would start here.

Except you're not actually firing through an arrow slit, so you only have the random fan blades to deal with. And those random fan blades are terrified of fire and would actively avoid touching the glowing bead if at all possible.

 

[Frostbiter01]

Except you're not actually firing through an arrow slit, so you only have the random fan blades to deal with. And those random fan blades are terrified of fire and would actively avoid touching the glowing bead if at all possible.

Yes if in the middle of battle they could see such a pea-sized object and then since the spell is instantaneous actually try and doge the speed of the projectile they may have a chance. may!

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes if in the middle of battle they could see such a pea-sized object and then since the spell is instantaneous actually try and doge the speed of the projectile they may have a chance. may!

If it was actually instantaneous, it would be travelling faster than light rather than taking the form of a discrete (and glowing) bead. In actuality, all we know is that the spell travels about as fast as an arrow (which can cover 1000' in less than six seconds), and we already know that human-scale Dexterity is enough to influence the chance of hitting or missing in that situation.

If you shoot someone, with an arrow or bead or ray or javelin, then their choice to take the hit (or more likely, to avoid being hit) influences your chance of success, so we know that the intent of the defender is still relevant on this scale of action.