Spellcasting Prodigy - Whats the beef?

[Crothian]

Because not every character starts at first level in many campaigns.

If you start your character at first level and take SCP, you are paying a real price by not having either Improved Initiative or Combat Casting when you need them most desperately. Fair enough, that.

If you start your wizard at higher level then you do not need to make this tough call. SCP is effectively "cheaper" for such a wizard, but it is just as useful if not more so.

IMO that is mechanically unsound.

Starting at a higher level changes a lot when it comes to choices. So, it's not unusual to see feat slections that are made because of this. It's just one of those things that happnes when you create characters at a higher level. I'd blame that on the campaign and not on the feat.

 

[Dagger75]

Well if you are just all harping on the name change it. Adept Spellcaster or something along those lines. Same bonus different name.

And I don't know if it is a must have feat for spellcasters, but since the FR book came out every primary spellcaster I have seen made in my games have the feat. All my bad guys have it to. But to be fair all the rogue characters have improved intiative.

Maybe we should just get rid of feats altogether, they are to powerful.

 

[Crothian]

Everyone thinks it's the primary spellcasters who should have this. I've got a cleric with it. He's not a primary spellcaster. He's taking a prestige class that weakens his spellcasting ability. It's just the feat fit perfectly with his background.

 

[Geoff Watson]

:jaw drops:

WHAT the HECK are you talking about?! All three warrior types have taken PA in my current campaign, and every warrior type has taken it in other campaigns as well. Its a great feat! With a decent STR warriors will always hit, why not turn that into damage? The paladin in my game lays (un?) holy WASTE with Power Attack! Cleave is ok when it happens but, gah!, +5 damage on EVERYONE this round! HAHAHA!! Power Attack R0><0R!!

Cleave gives you extra attacks with no penalties. Its great.

Power Attack is lousy, as nearly all of the time the penalty to hit is worse than the bonus to damage (especially for characters who do a lot of damage anyway). The average damage usually goes down, rather than up.

Do the maths.

gah! MINUS FIVE TO HIT on EVERYONE. You'll miss a lot more often. Power Attack SUXXORS!!

Geoff.

 

[Crothian]

Cleave gives you extra attacks with no penalties. Its great.

Power Attack is lousy, as nearly all of the time the penalty to hit is worse than the bonus to damage (especially for characters who do a lot of damage anyway). The average damage usually goes down, rather than up.

Do the maths.

gah! MINUS FIVE TO HIT on EVERYONE. You'll miss a lot more often. Power Attack SUXXORS!!

Geoff.

PA is great on low AC opponents. THat's what it is designed for. If you use it all the time, then it will hinder you. However, in the proper situations it is great.

 

[Victim]

Many aberations, beasts, animals, dire whatsits, etc have rather poor AC. Power Attack lets one dismantle those foes rapidly. For example, Mind Flayers have 14 AC while Girallons have 16 AC. Kill them quickly lest their counterattack defeat your character.

I thought power attack sucked as well - it lowers your average damage in most cases - and then I saw the fighter in our group use it all the time against the low AC foes in the adventure. Fully buffed, he'd launch all out power attacks and would still hit almost everytime.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sorry. I don't buy that just because the feat is rarely taken in one campaign indicates balance.

There's lots of differences between the campaigns.

I'm saying that compared to feats found elsewhere, Spellcasting Prodigy has an edge on them. It is more powerful than a spell like Extra Spell. It's similar to taking a Kinda OK Spell Focus feat that gives you a +1 to all DC's, AND having an Extra Spell feat.

So it's good.

The FRCS is, as I've said, kinda riddled with these feats.

They're not going to unbalance a game. They're not going to destroy all your hard work in a campaign, or probably even be significantly likely to be great. But they're good in comparison to other feats. This is what makes them rather unbalanced.

Really, it wasn't this feat that made me think the FRCS was balanced a bit wonky. It was the feat that gives you a +2 bonus to Ride AND a free martial weapon proficiency.

That thing is two feats for the price of one...ergo, better.

Is it really going to make that big of a difference? No. If you're a first level and you're going for a horseback bowman, you'll probably be mostly a Fighter anyway, so the maritial weapon prof. is just redundant (skill focus would be better). If you're trying to, say, max out your skill ranks for other things and you've taken LV1 as a Rogue, it's better than taking simply Maritial Weapon Proficiency, if you want to be a bow-wiedling horseman.

Really, it boils down to the feat being better than normal, and that not really ruining the game in the course. If you have to be told it's better than normal, I'm not sure you've compared it to others. If you're convinced that, even if it is better than normal, Spellcasting Prodigy really doesn't unbalance that much, you'd be right. 100% right. +1 to DC's and an extra spell aren't going to suddenly make you kick a whole lot more bootay. But it is better than +2 to a school OR an Extra Spell.

The only thing I fault the FRCS for in this respect is that it was the first campaign setting, and it broke the rules simply because it was cool and it could. It set a bad precedent.

 

[Broken Fang]

Everyone takes Improved Initiative as well...must be broke.

My problem is every new book has new feats...WotC needs to complie them all in the Big Book of Feats. Then again don't because I wouldn't buy it. It's not that hard to come up with your own ideas...and if your semi-intellignet you should be able to come up with something decent.

 

[Creamsteak]

I might use it if I played Forgotten Realms. I know three or four gaming groups in my areas that play it... so I could always hop over and make a spellcaster to join their groups and try the feat out.

Really, I don't like feats that are so... not-quite-right. I don't know if being a spellcasting prodigy makes you better at being intelligent when it comes to casting spells...

I would think any character with an 18 intelligence was probably a "prodigy" at his or her school.

I prefer to play a straight game with no campaign settings feats/classes/stuff. I just like to have the basics. The farthest I'll stretch to play is Dieties and Demigods, Epic Level Handbook, and the class books. Going even farther than that seems silly to me.

I can make a first level mage that can kill three first level fighters and a warrior using the basic rules. Why do I need more power?

And taking feats to fletch out your character seems backwards.

You fletch out your character and THEN take the feats that are appropriate. I figure out I'm playing a crossbow toting cleric with a penchant for avoiding fights through diplomacy, a good attitude towards goblinoids, and a great attitude towards kobolds. Then I take feats that improve my diplomacy, crossbow skills, and I learn goblinoid.

 

[rounser]

Really, it wasn't this feat that made me think the FRCS was balanced a bit wonky. It was the feat that gives you a +2 bonus to Ride AND a free martial weapon proficiency.

That thing is two feats for the price of one...ergo, better.

Nice try.

Being able to choose the weapon and skill a feat applies to is a feature - and that feat (Horse Nomad) takes that away in both choice of skill (Ride only) and martial weapon proficiency (Composite Shortbow only).

You may luck out if you play a character that was going to take Skill Focus (Ride) and Martial Weapon Proficiency (Composite Shortbow) anyway, but that's precisely the kind of character this feat is meant to support.