D&D 5E Spells that turned out to be a lot more powerful than you thought

[kerbarian]

After looking at Conjure Animals, I looked right next to it at Conjure Woodland Beings. That lets you conjure 8 pixies, and each of those pixies has a nice list of spells they can cast (and concentrate on) for you.

So, for example, Conjure Woodland Beings lets you effectively cast Fly or Polymorph on the entire party.

 

[DaveDash]

After looking at Conjure Animals, I looked right next to it at Conjure Woodland Beings. That lets you conjure 8 pixies, and each of those pixies has a nice list of spells they can cast (and concentrate on) for you.

So, for example, Conjure Woodland Beings lets you effectively cast Fly or Polymorph on the entire party.

There's also some debate though over who gets to chose the creatures, since it's not clearly worded. The only thing that is clear is that the player gets to chose the CR, the "DM has the statistics" otherwise. So there is a couple of things.

1. Maybe these pixies don't have polymorph.
2. Maybe there are no pixies in the region for you to summon.

So on paper yeah, it's a powerful spell. But as a DM I'd never let my player abuse it in this way.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Just like the title says. Which spells turned out to be a lot more effective or powerful than you thought before seeing them in actual play?

Command: Flee is a lot better than I expected based on AD&D. Takes an enemy out of play for two rounds, may give opportunity attacks, doesn't eat concentration.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If the fighter, thief, and 4 wolves are pounding me, I'd try to get a Dex saving throw damaging spell on that summoner. You bet!

I'm guessing that your DM doesn't make much use of partial/total cover.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm guessing that your DM doesn't make much use of partial/total cover.

Note the phrase "I'd try" in my sentence.

Total cover also does not always help against area effect spells that can be placed behind the cover. And partial cover doesn't affect Dex saving throw damaging spells at all, so I'm not quite sure of your point about that.

 

[Sacrosanct]

rather than do more post quote chains, I will reiterate

if you're looking at dpr as a comparison, stop. I've already said at least twice that there are other benefits that are of equal importance. Preventing damage or other effects that would target the party, affecting monsters' movement, being able to move around obstacles themselves, duration, etc are all equally important

the spell says to summon beasts. Goblins or orcs aren't beasts, so it's flawed right from the get go to compare wolves with goblins by looking at their CR.

40ft diameter is not the big. Get your mind out of the dungeon and look outside. Seriously, go outside and mark it off. 15 bullywugs and 5 giant toads, out on a random meandering patrol, won't have all that many in that radius. Heck, in the military you're taught to stay 5m away from the guy in front of you so you don't get taken out by grenades. In a world where fireballs, moonbeams, and stinking clouds exist, I'm sure every other humanoid would do the same tactics

 

[Curmudjinn]

I rarely think to pound the summoner if a fighter and theif are double teaming me...

Why not play the NPC just as strategically as the PCs? They plan out their group round of attacks, optimize movements per round, etc..

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Why not play the NPC just as strategically as the PCs? They plan out their group round of attacks, optimize movements per round, etc..

it's funny, but I have found (and it might just be me and the guys I play with) that I do much better as a PC with tactics then with NPCs. I have too much going through my mind, and at the end of the day I don't really want to win.

I mean my goal may be to beat up the PCs, but when I play my goal is the totatl slaughter of the NPCs...

 

[Fanaelialae]

40ft diameter is not the big. Get your mind out of the dungeon and look outside. Seriously, go outside and mark it off. 15 bullywugs and 5 giant toads, out on a random meandering patrol, won't have all that many in that radius. Heck, in the military you're taught to stay 5m away from the guy in front of you so you don't get taken out by grenades. In a world where fireballs, moonbeams, and stinking clouds exist, I'm sure every other humanoid would do the same tactics

I'm not saying that it's unreasonable for creatures to use those tactics. I probably wouldn't use them with simple creatures like bullywugs, but I don't think it's unreasonable if your DM does. However, there are serious tradeoffs, particularly for large groups with poor ranged capabilities (such as the aforementioned bullywugs and toads).

Staying 15 ft apart (roughly equivalent to 5m) is fine of a small squad of PCs, because with 4 or 5 PCs the back line isn't that far from the front (assuming a depth of no more than 2 or 3 ranks) and the back ranks ought to be range capable anyway.

On the other hand, for the bullywugs, it's going to seriously impact their ability to concentrate fire, which is what makes a large group of monsters so dangerous. You can't spread that many creatures that far apart and expect them to all be able to attack in round one. Somewhere between half and three quarters of them will spend their first turn just moving. And unless they're taking a very roundabout route to avoid grouping up (meaning that many of them will be spending yet another round doing nothing but moving), they're going to be funneling towards the party and grouping up. Meaning that either a fireball cast after they move will take out a great many of them, or you're going to get 3 waves of enemies enabling you to cull the smaller batches much more easily. You're never going to be taking attacks from all of them unless the DM decides to equip those primitive bullywugs with longbows.

That's not even factoring in the element of surprise from your particular scenario.

Again, I'm not saying that Conjure Animals isn't a good 3rd level spell. It's definitely a top-notch druid spell for that slot. And in certain cases it's undoubtedly better than a Fireball. But until I see better evidence to the contrary, I'm not convinced that it's unreasonable compared to what other 3rd level combat spells are capable of. I'm open to the possibility, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Sacrosanct]

So? Who says that every monster has to attack on round 1? In fact, good planning on the PCs part SHOULD be trying to prevent that very thing from happening if possible. IMO anyway, monsters should always behave as they normally would, and metagaming stuff needs to get thrown out the window. A laregish group of bullywugs, in their home terrain not expecting an attack, should be spread out meandering along instead of in some sort of quasi Roman formation just because it means they all get to attack in round 1.