D&D 5E Spells you house rule?

[TheSword]

I am contemplating house ruling Shield. To either apply to only one attack, or to have a max cap of AC 20. I’ve seen too many time it be used to take AC 20+ characters to astronomic levels (including my own characters)

As always, Rope trick and Tiny Hit are abominations and have an enchantment on them, that makes the eye skip over them when being read in a book.

 

[Sabathius42]

in theory yes, in practice not really (but I already went into this), it is pretty common for 2 people tobe talking and one sees on the others face that they are looking at something behind him

You are just restarting what I said. We agree in the example situation. If the fighter/player thinks something is off and is checking it out the cleric can use guidance.

To make it more explicit ... In the example I would not allow guidance just because the bartender used stealth versus the fighters passive perception and no guidance if the party had no reason to be suspicious. If they had a reason to be extra cautious (maybe it's a known Zentarim hangout spot) then I'd both allow the cleric to guide a party member AND I'd allow an active Perception check at the time of the sneaking.

 

[Oofta]

@GMforPowergamers

Your PCs are sitting at a table in a tavern chatting. All but one (the Fighter) has their back to the Bar, and blocked by a wall. You determine that the Bartender - who is also secretly a Zentarim spy (and only visible to the Fighter) secretly pulls a lever, and sneakily enters a secret door to the basement. The Fighter is the only person possibly able to see this happen.

You call for a Perception check, from the Fighters player, to see if his PC notices as the bartender make his sneaky exit.

After you call for the check, the Cleric Player chimes in with 'I cast guidance!'

Do you allow this, and if so why? How does the Cleric (oblivious to what is going on, and sitting there talking to the Rouge) know that at that very instant, the Fighter across the table from him is engaged in a test of skill to notice something that you dont know exists?

No.

On what possible grounds did the Cleric suddenly (and for no apparent reason) leap forward and call for divine blessing in the name of Moradin, for the Fighter?

And even if for some weird reason you WOULD allow it, and the cleric is somehow able to cast a blessing to assist a PC noticing something, to which you are oblivious, the event has already happened when the DM calls for the check. All we are checking for now is if the PC noticed the event happening.

How would it even be possible to retroactively provide the blessing, before the Bartender went through the secret passage, unknown to the Cleric, and with absolutely no visual (or other) clues that there was even a 'skill check' being undertaken at that instant in the first place?

On the other hand if the barbarian leaps over the bar and says "I know there's a secret button here somewhere!" then the cleric can chime in with guidance in my games.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

So far the only one is Forcecage with a simple please don't use it. It's no fun when used on non-teleporting PCs. They may as well put down their character sheet and go for a walk if it's mid-battle.

I don’t get why it’s powerful. You trap someone inside, but they can’t hurt you and you can’t hurt them? So when the spell runs out, resume combat?

Or am I missing something?

 

[Oofta]

I don’t get why it’s powerful. You trap someone inside, but they can’t hurt you and you can’t hurt them? So when the spell runs out, resume combat?

Or am I missing something?

In addition, the cage lasts for 1 hour unless you cast dispel magic on it. In some cases it can be beneficial for the PCs to escape or to divide and conquer the enemy, but an hour can be an awfully long time.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Many, many, official monsters have pretty much no ranged attacks, so the idea is usually to just walk away and shoot them to death, or cast a spell inside like Sickening Radiance so they die without fighting back.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Many, many, official monsters have pretty much no ranged attacks, so the idea is usually to just walk away and shoot them to death, or cast a spell inside like Sickening Radiance so they die without fighting back.

yeah this isn't a spell issue per say but it is something that needs to be addressed

 

[Quickleaf]

I am contemplating house ruling Shield. To either apply to only one attack, or to have a max cap of AC 20. I’ve seen too many time it be used to take AC 20+ characters to astronomic levels (including my own characters)

As always, Rope trick and Tiny Hit are abominations and have an enchantment on them, that makes the eye skip over them when being read in a book.

Yeah, shield is really powerful. Not sure if it's broken, but it eclipses parrying and I saw half of my old players take it.

I'm thinking of reining in shield so that it works as written, except it only applies to attacks from one creature or one source... or possibly one weapon/ammunition type. So if a dragon were attacking you, you could raise a shield against its attacks. Or if you were running across a field of longbow fire, you could raise a shield against arrows.

Still brainstorming whether I want to implement the change, and how it would look.

 

[J-H]

I don’t get why it’s powerful. You trap someone inside, but they can’t hurt you and you can’t hurt them? So when the spell runs out, resume combat?

Or am I missing something?

You set up an exciting mid/high-level boss fight against a caster and some mooks in a lab filled with volatile materials. All hands on deck, it's going to be a nice 6 round boss fight with lots for everyone to do.

The enemy caster opens with his highest level spell, Forcecage, targeted at the party fighter/barbarian/non-Shadow monk, rogue, etc.

What options does that player have to do anything at all other than be a spectator for the next hour of in-game time and the rest of the exciting fight?

 

[TheSword]

Yeah, shield is really powerful. Not sure if it's broken, but it eclipses parrying and I saw half of my old players take it.

I'm thinking of reining in shield so that it works as written, except it only applies to attacks from one creature or one source... or possibly one weapon/ammunition type. So if a dragon were attacking you, you could raise a shield against its attacks. Or if you were running across a field of longbow fire, you could raise a shield against arrows.

Still brainstorming whether I want to implement the change, and how it would look.

I think shield is fine when it’s used to protect that warlock, sorcerer or wizard. With AC 15.

I think it gets silly when that low level Paladin (or fighter or bladesinger) with a level of arcane caster uses it’s already high AC from full plate, a shield and shield of faith, etc to get it to 27 on the unlikely event someone gets through AC22.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think shield is fine when it’s used to protect that warlock, sorcerer or wizard. With AC 15.

I think it gets silly when that low level Paladin (or fighter or bladesinger) with a level of arcane caster uses it’s already high AC from full plate, a shield and shield of faith, etc to get it to 27 on the unlikely event someone gets through AC22.

someone on tic tock has "highest AC at level 1" and has it in the upper 20's by being a tortol caster with shield

he says it best at the end "NPC wont be able to hit you, but your DM may want to"

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Shield seems to be made on the assumption that the users will have low AC, just to compensate, but since there's no real limit to casting on armor besides proficiency, a Wizard can go Cleric 1 and have 20 AC base with Plate and a Shield, 25 with the Shield spell. Or without multiclassing, take a race with medium armor prof and have 19 base, 24 with Shield.

It's more limited for Eldritch Knights and Hexblades since they get fewer slots, but not very well thought out for the normal full casters.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Shield seems to be made on the assumption that the users will have low AC, just to compensate, but since there's no real limit to casting on armor besides proficiency, a Wizard can go Cleric 1 and have 20 AC base with Plate and a Shield, 25 with the Shield spell. Or without multiclassing, take a race with armor prof and have 19 base, 24 with Shield.

It's more limited for Eldritch Knights and Hexblades since they get fewer slots, but not very well thought out for the normal full casters.

When you watch a PC multi class hexblade and sorcerer just so they can take a few 1st level spells like shield and watch them burn warlock spells before each short rest for sorcerey pts to turn into 1st level spells you start to see red... trust me

 

[Oofta]

someone on tic tock has "highest AC at level 1" and has it in the upper 20's by being a tortol caster with shield

he says it best at the end "NPC wont be able to hit you, but your DM may want to"

If you're not proficient in shields you can't cast spells. A tortle gets base AC 17 (no dex mod). You can get a +4 to AC by withdrawing into your shell as an action but if you do that you can't use reactions so you couldn't cast shield. So yes, an AC of 22 a couple of times a day is nice but I see no way to get into the "upper 20s".

On the other hand my fighter/arcane trickster that eventually got shield was annoying.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

When you watch a PC multi class hexblade and sorcerer just so they can take a few 1st level spells like shield and watch them burn warlock spells before each short rest for sorcerey pts to turn into 1st level spells you start to see red... trust me

I've DM'd a Sorcadin with 26 AC base, 31 with Shield, nothing can phase me anymore.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If you're not proficient in shields you can't cast spells. A tortle gets base AC 17 (no dex mod). You can get a +4 to AC by withdrawing into your shell as an action but if you do that you can't use reactions so you couldn't cast shield. So yes, an AC of 22 a couple of times a day is nice but I see no way to get into the "upper 20s".

On the other hand my fighter/arcane trickster that eventually got shield was annoying.

okay I went and looked he has a youtube channel... it is cover shield shield spell and withdraw, I think it is a thought experiment but mostly just to set up the joke "The NPC wont be able to hit you but your DM might want to"

 

[Oofta]

okay I went and looked he has a youtube channel... it is cover shield shield spell and withdraw, I think it is a thought experiment but mostly just to set up the joke "The NPC wont be able to hit you but your DM might want to"

Well, part of that logic is purposely triggering an OA and getting behind 3/4 cover because the enemy that just tried to hit you with a melee weapon is obviously going to try a ranged attack instead of following. Also assumes that somehow you're still holding your shield while turtled up. I don't see how you can hold a shield when you've "withdrawn into your shell" but ... meh.

Might as well say that they get infinite AC by moving out of the room. I get it though, it's one of those things that is technically plausible but is never going to happen.

 

[Sabathius42]

someone on tic tock has "highest AC at level 1" and has it in the upper 20's by being a tortol caster with shield

he says it best at the end "NPC wont be able to hit you, but your DM may want to"

Suffers from the same problem as a rogue who is perpetually hidden....that just means more attacks piled up on other targets, making those PCs go down that much faster.

My first campaign had two characters who would never be in danger during many battles (flying wizard and hiding rogue) and it never bothered me as GM but I'm sure it did the other players who kept getting their teeth kicked in by taking ALL the hits.

 

[TheSword]

Suffers from the same problem as a rogue who is perpetually hidden....that just means more attacks piled up on other targets, making those PCs go down that much faster.

My first campaign had two characters who would never be in danger during many battles (flying wizard and hiding rogue) and it never bothered me as GM but I'm sure it did the other players who kept getting their teeth kicked in by taking ALL the hits.

The problem with shield is that it isn’t a problem until it’s used. How do you justify not attacking the Paladin when the base AC is similar to other characters but they can cast shield when needed.

 

[Flamestrike]

No.


On the other hand if the barbarian leaps over the bar and says "I know there's a secret button here somewhere!" then the cleric can chime in with guidance in my games.

Yeah for sure, if the Cleric has some in game reason to suspect a test of skill is about to take place, and casts it before the check is requested, then I'd allow it too.