Flamestrike
Legend
Guidance applies to passive checks as well.
D&D 5E Spells you house rule?
- Thread starter Quickleaf
- Start date
Guidance applies to passive checks as well.
Flamestrike
Legend
Shield cant be cast with hands full so it's less of a Problem with most Paladins firstly need access to it, want to burn slots on both it (and smites) and often use shields.
Flamestrike
Legend
But the test of skill occurred when the Bard was saying the thing that lead to the Persuasion check.
Example:
DM: As you approach the tower of Tharizdun, you spot two clearly bored Orc sentries. They look up at you and snort a challenge.
Bard Player: As they do so I step forward, hold out the Symbol of the Elemental Eye and boldly say: We're here at the request of your master. Stand aside or be punished for your insolence!'
DM: (pauses to think of a DC for the lie/ threat); OK, make me an Intimidate check.
From that moment, I'm not allowing the Help action, (unless another player can chime in with something that is likely to help the Bard in his lie/ threat at this point) or the casting of Guidance, because the thing I'm asking for the check for has already happened.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
I don't see how that can be.
Guidance effects an ability check of your choice. You can't choose to use a passive check. It just happens. In fact, they often happen without players ever knowing if they fail.
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Flamestrike
Legend
A passive check is still an ability check.
Roll20
It can add the +1d4 (a modifier that applies to the base skill check) to the result for mine.
The specific clause is: "A passive check is a special kind of ability check".
So technically yes, guidance could apply to passive checks.
The save repeats on Hypnotic Pattern. Keeps it as a good CC spell, but reduces unheroic "huddle round helpless foes one at a time" fight conclusions.
Owls don't have Flyby Attack, as an indirect change to Find Familiar. Striking a blow for familiar diversity in a way that feels more fair than just having goblins with shortbows pop up everywhere.
Tiny Hut is banned in my current game. For others, I'd simply have it provide protection against natural weather and concealment, but doesn't give you Wall Of Force Plus. And probably not let it be a ritual. If it worked like it did during the game, invulnerable bunkers would be a key feature of fantasy warfare.
Heat Metal allows a repeating CON save if it targets something the enemy can't drop (no save for a held item). Would be nice to actually be able to use major antagonists who wear metal armour, you know?
Ones I'm considering for the future:
The damage of Fireball is dropped to 7d6 or 6d6, so it's less of a "well duh" choice, and doesn't eclipse every damage spell of level 2, 3, 4 or sometimes 5. Lightning Bolt is one die higher, to reflect the fact that it's much harder to catch a group with it.
Forcecage allows a Dex save to get out the area when cast.
Polymorph is split into two spells, one to turn enemies into harmless creatures, and one to transform allies. And maybe remove some go-to forms like Giant Ape.
Owls don't have Flyby Attack, as an indirect change to Find Familiar. Striking a blow for familiar diversity in a way that feels more fair than just having goblins with shortbows pop up everywhere.
Tiny Hut is banned in my current game. For others, I'd simply have it provide protection against natural weather and concealment, but doesn't give you Wall Of Force Plus. And probably not let it be a ritual. If it worked like it did during the game, invulnerable bunkers would be a key feature of fantasy warfare.
Heat Metal allows a repeating CON save if it targets something the enemy can't drop (no save for a held item). Would be nice to actually be able to use major antagonists who wear metal armour, you know?
Ones I'm considering for the future:
The damage of Fireball is dropped to 7d6 or 6d6, so it's less of a "well duh" choice, and doesn't eclipse every damage spell of level 2, 3, 4 or sometimes 5. Lightning Bolt is one die higher, to reflect the fact that it's much harder to catch a group with it.
Forcecage allows a Dex save to get out the area when cast.
Polymorph is split into two spells, one to turn enemies into harmless creatures, and one to transform allies. And maybe remove some go-to forms like Giant Ape.
TheSword
Legend
Warcaster makes this too easy to get round and dealing 9 points of damage to the enemy is less powerful than avoiding 9 points of damage to you.
Flamestrike
Legend
So now you've spend an ASI and obtained shield somewhere else (another ASI, or multiclassing).
TheSword
Legend
Warcaster is a great feat, bonus to concentration, spells as AOO and weapon for somantic components. I don’t know why any martial caster wouldn’t take it!
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
I would think it depends on how the passive check is being used. Passive checks are used in two instances:
1. instead of rolling the same ability check repeatedly (the finding secret doors over and over again part...)
2. when the DM wants to secretly determines without rolling dice (noticing a hidden monster part...)
In the first instance, guidance can't be used for the passive because it applies to only one check. In essence, the PC would perhaps use guidance on one specific check first (a normal active ability check) when the activity starts, but then cannot apply it to any passive checks. Since guidance uses your action, you couldn't even cast it each round and then make the check since both require your action; so it wouldn't work with passive checks IMO.
Now, I could see guidance perhaps being applied to instance 2 above, where the DM doesn't want to disclose information but the situation might be more "active". For example, a PC might be scouting and think a monster is hiding in ambush, so asks to make a Wisdom (Perception) check. The DM asks for the character's passive score, and the player says "I want to roll my guidance d4, ok?" The DM says "Ok, go ahead and I'll add it to your passive score."
However, in the second instance, often those uses are due to the PC not "actively" using the ability, which is why it is passive. In such cases, guidance wouldn't work IMO.
That's how I run it anyway.
1. instead of rolling the same ability check repeatedly (the finding secret doors over and over again part...)
2. when the DM wants to secretly determines without rolling dice (noticing a hidden monster part...)
In the first instance, guidance can't be used for the passive because it applies to only one check. In essence, the PC would perhaps use guidance on one specific check first (a normal active ability check) when the activity starts, but then cannot apply it to any passive checks. Since guidance uses your action, you couldn't even cast it each round and then make the check since both require your action; so it wouldn't work with passive checks IMO.
Now, I could see guidance perhaps being applied to instance 2 above, where the DM doesn't want to disclose information but the situation might be more "active". For example, a PC might be scouting and think a monster is hiding in ambush, so asks to make a Wisdom (Perception) check. The DM asks for the character's passive score, and the player says "I want to roll my guidance d4, ok?" The DM says "Ok, go ahead and I'll add it to your passive score."
However, in the second instance, often those uses are due to the PC not "actively" using the ability, which is why it is passive. In such cases, guidance wouldn't work IMO.
That's how I run it anyway.
jmartkdr2
Hero
In practice, I've found guidance is fine if you only apply it to tasks the caster reasonably could have seen coming - after all you, need to cast it on your own turn before the check happens.
Forcecage is great for enemies you don't need to actually kill, just get past. An hour later you're gonna be pretty far away.
Shield is one of those effects that can be overpowered if you can use it all the time - but long adventuring days are hard to enforce, especially at high levels where you need really long days and players have a lot of ways around combats they don't want to bother with.
Forcecage is great for enemies you don't need to actually kill, just get past. An hour later you're gonna be pretty far away.
Shield is one of those effects that can be overpowered if you can use it all the time - but long adventuring days are hard to enforce, especially at high levels where you need really long days and players have a lot of ways around combats they don't want to bother with.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah, naw. That's not happening in my games. Someone can't guide you for a check neither they nor you know is happening.
And I think that's a fair interpretation as well. The easy counterpoint to "it works on passive checks" is that guidance says "one ability check you choose". If you argue that a character does not choose to do passive checks, its simply a consequence of other things going on, than even if the bonus is applicable, you could never choose to apply it.
Hehe but I think this guidance debate is starting to consume the thread, so I'll just reiterate my fix that just completely solves the issue
Guidance: Duration becomes 1 hour (concentration). 6 characters within range gain a +1 to all ability checks for the duration.
Enjoy never having to have a single debate about guidance at your table ever again.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
I've actually never had a debate about guidance at my table. The one player whose character can cast it never pushes it and is quick to accept my ruling if there is doubt. (which is how it should be
)
GMforPowergamers
Legend
GMforPowergamers
Legend
that sounds like what it should have been to begin with
in 3e they started to make it work with "troll form" I would love to break up the 'turn into anything into a bunch of spells turn into 1 (or maybe a small group like flying animal form, dragon form)creature
I don't know, I mean, I'm happy to finally have spell damage increased relative to hit points- in 3e it was pretty nuts to realize that fireball was still doing the same damage it did in the 70's, but monsters had way more hit points.
I know people bring up the guidelines for spell damage in the DMG a lot, but does an extra d6 really matter that much?
GMforPowergamers
Legend
yes it does... especially when you sit there and say "what spell should I take?"
