Spring Attack doubt

[Goolpsy]

The source is also a lack of a statement that allows you to change your actions once you've embarked upon them. For instance, you cast fireball only to have someone counterspell it with another fireball. Can you suddenly change it to lightning bolt and hope that your opponent doesn't have that, thereby negating his counterspell attempt (assuming no dispel magic either)? No, of course not, but there's no rule saying that you cannot change your action once you choose it and start it (that I recall anyway).

Brilliant Example

 

[RigaMortus2]

The source is also a lack of a statement that allows you to change your actions once you've embarked upon them. For instance, you cast fireball only to have someone counterspell it with another fireball. Can you suddenly change it to lightning bolt and hope that your opponent doesn't have that, thereby negating his counterspell attempt (assuming no dispel magic either)? No, of course not, but there's no rule saying that you cannot change your action once you choose it and start it (that I recall anyway).

It's a standard action to cast fireball, so if you use your standard action to cast it and someone uses their standard action (readied) to counter it, unless you have another standard action somewhere else, you can't cast lightning bolt instead. Or am I missing your point? Obviosuly after you cast the spell, you can't change it. It's already happened.

Question: Does the counterspell happen before you cast the spell, during the casting of the spell, or after the casting of the spell?

Just thought of another question... When you Ready to counter a spell, are you targetting the spell, or the caster of the spell? Not sure if this may have any in-game ramifications, I was just curious.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Because if a benefit only comes under a condition, and that condition is one that must be fulfilled after the benefit, then if you accept the benefit, you have no choice as to whether or not you fulfil the condition.

If I want to deal skirmish damage, then I have to move at least ten feat before I attack.

If I want to avoid an AoO from the ogre via Spring Attack, then I have to attack him after I avoid the AoO.

The order of events is different, but the if-then dependency doesn't change.

-Hyp.

Does this apply to Power Attacking + CdG a helpless foe?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Question: Does the counterspell happen before you cast the spell, during the casting of the spell, or after the casting of the spell?

This is the point. When someone readies to counterspell, their action is resolved before yours. But, the real nuance in the example is that you've started a specific action (casting a fireball), and can you change it midstream? I think we all agree you can't. The analogy is that once you've started a spring attack on ogre a, can you change it midstream to a spring attack on ogre b (or any action for that matter)?

Just thought of another question... When you Ready to counter a spell, are you targetting the spell, or the caster of the spell? Not sure if this may have any in-game ramifications, I was just curious.

You choose the spellcaster that you are readying against, but you counter the spell he casts, not the spellcaster. If countering the spell is considered targeting it, then okay, but the fact that you are readied on the spellcaster might seem contradictory.

 

[RigaMortus2]

You choose the spellcaster that you are readying against, but you counter the spell he casts, not the spellcaster. If countering the spell is considered targeting it, then okay, but the fact that you are readied on the spellcaster might seem contradictory.

Well if you have 5 wizards vs 5 wizards, you can't "Ready to counter a spell"? You actually have to pick a specific wizard to Ready against?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well if you have 5 wizards vs 5 wizards, you can't "Ready to counter a spell"? You actually have to pick a specific wizard to Ready against?

That's right. That's one of the reasons, perhaps the biggest, why people say that counterspelling sucks. The rule is thus: "To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell." Hmm, actually, I guess that defines the "target" with respect to counterspelling, too. Odd.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does this apply to Power Attacking + CdG a helpless foe?

If you're Power Attacking, you take the penalty to any attack rolls that you make. But making an attack roll isn't a condition for using the feat.

Moving before and after the attack is a condition for using the Spring Attack feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

When someone readies to counterspell, their action is resolved before yours. But, the real nuance in the example is that you've started a specific action (casting a fireball), and can you change it midstream? I think we all agree you can't.

It's why the Ready-to-attack-when-he-attacks, 5' step works so nicely when someone's coming for you...

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

There's a difference between "logic" and "common sense". Your choices for resolving this matter (the "can you pick your target after using Spring Attack?" question) are:

(1) "Yes" --> results in a paradox.
(2) "No".

Pick one.

If I can choose, it means that this feat can lead to paradox.

 

[Egres]

If I want to avoid an AoO from the ogre via Spring Attack, then I have to attack him after I avoid the AoO.
.

But this means that I have a defender before my attack.