Spring attack question

[Kae'Yoss]

Make it automatic. I've always hated the "spellcasting declared" BS from 2e, and still do.

If he uses it fairly often, just drop the AoO. If he then stops to do full attack, you still can make the AoO later.
If he uses it only sparsely, announce the AoO when he moves in. He'll then tell you that he uses spring attack, and all is fine.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't think he should have to declare the use of spring attack unless the initial movement would provoke an AoO otherwise.

This will not usually be relevant, however, it will be at times. Consider the following situation: E= Evil Bad Guy, F=evil bad guy's Flunky, P= PC, X= an empty square

Initial Situation
FPF
XEX
XXX

The PC takes a five foot step out of the flank. Ordinarily this will not provoke an AoO from either E or F if it's all the movement the PC does in the round.

New Situation
FXF
PEX
XXX

The PC attacks E once, and drops him. Now the PC might decide "That was a spring attack, I want to get away from the flunkies so I will continue my move." However, in that event, the PC would have provoked AoOs from both flunkies when he took the initial 5 foot step (since that was not the sum total of his movement in a round). Had the Flunkies taken their AoOs when they would have been provoked they might have disarmed or killed the PC or otherwise prevented the attack which dropped the Evil Bad Guy.

If this situation was slightly different, the PC would gain a huge advantage by pretending to merely take a 5 foot step while really spring attacking--consider the following. Here, the abusiveness of the situation becomes even more clear. After dropping the Evil Bad Guy, the PC cleaves into the upper left flunky and drops him as well generating the following situation:

Abusive Situation
XXF
PXX
XXX

Now, the PC is no longer threatened and, if he is not retroactively subjected to AoOs from both flunkies (one of whom is now dead, making the situation even sillier), he will continue his spring attack movement without suffering any AoOs.

Consequently, in order to avoid such situations, I believe it best for characters to declare the use of spring attack whenever it exempts them from AoOs or whenever the first portion of the spring attack is a five foot step.

 

[Immort]

Good points but yer missed a very important rule of spring attack. You don't provoke attack of opportunity from the creature that you are spring attacking. Anyone else is still fair game to op you all they want. So Announcing the spring attack would be relevant both in situations where you would be opped unless yer spring attacking, or to determine who gets to op you and who don't, or both.

-Immort

 

[mkletch]

You have to announce you actions. Sometimes you have flexibility, like choosing an attack or full attack, and where/if you place you 5' step. But spring attack is an action that includes movement and an attack. If he doesn't declare, and he moves through a threatened area, AoO. Tough crackers. If he wants to move through any threatened area, he must declare spring attack before doing so, and which opponent is his target.

Not also that psring attack does not stop a readied action. If he pulls this crap all the time, the 'bad guys' can just ready an action and whack him anyway. Overuse of spring attack is a cheese, albeit a legal cheese. Note also that the effects of a spring attack are contained within a particular action, and do not extend to a haste partial action.

Check Monte Cook's site for how he nerfed spring attack. In short, you must move before and after the attack, and thee is a minimum distance for each. I don't like people using spring attack to simply run circles around an opponent; it's just silly.

-Fletch!

 

[Tom Cashel]

Also, if you have Spring Attack then you also have Mobility (+4 AC vs. AoO)...in my experience Spring Attacking PCs don't much give a hoot about AoOs, since they are rarely hit by them.

I'd say you should have the PC announce that they are using spring attack, when they take their action. Just as they should say whether they are taking a five foot adjustment or the full attack option or disengaging or total defense or whatever. You may not have to declare actions before the round begins, but you certainly have to tell the DM what you intend to do once your turn comes up.

The argument that its too inconvenient for a player to be bothered with actually saying what they do, when the DM should be able to assume it, is ludicrous. Doesn't the DM have enough to keep track of without knowing all the PCs actions without them saying it? Why bother with players at all in that case? Just have a George Lucas campaign where all the PCs are computer generated. When you ask them what they're doing on their initiative they just give you this look: Come on, man, you KNOW what I'm doing.

Yeah. Losing your turn. NEXT!

 

[smetzger]

If you declare who you attack before your move action then it would be redundant to also say its a spring attack.

 

[jontherev]

I don't think he should have to declare the use of spring attack unless the initial movement would provoke an AoO otherwise.

This will not usually be relevant, however, it will be at times. Consider the following situation: E= Evil Bad Guy, F=evil bad guy's Flunky, P= PC, X= an empty square

Initial Situation
FPF
XEX
XXX

The PC takes a five foot step out of the flank. Ordinarily this will not provoke an AoO from either E or F if it's all the movement the PC does in the round.

New Situation
FXF
PEX
XXX

The PC attacks E once, and drops him. Now the PC might decide "That was a spring attack, I want to get away from the flunkies so I will continue my move." However, in that event, the PC would have provoked AoOs from both flunkies when he took the initial 5 foot step (since that was not the sum total of his movement in a round). Had the Flunkies taken their AoOs when they would have been provoked they might have disarmed or killed the PC or otherwise prevented the attack which dropped the Evil Bad Guy.

If this situation was slightly different, the PC would gain a huge advantage by pretending to merely take a 5 foot step while really spring attacking--consider the following. Here, the abusiveness of the situation becomes even more clear. After dropping the Evil Bad Guy, the PC cleaves into the upper left flunky and drops him as well generating the following situation:

Abusive Situation
XXF
PXX
XXX

Now, the PC is no longer threatened and, if he is not retroactively subjected to AoOs from both flunkies (one of whom is now dead, making the situation even sillier), he will continue his spring attack movement without suffering any AoOs.

Consequently, in order to avoid such situations, I believe it best for characters to declare the use of spring attack whenever it exempts them from AoOs or whenever the first portion of the spring attack is a five foot step.

Taking a 5' step and moving 5' are different. You can't move 5' and pretend like it's a 5' step, and (if things go the way you want) decide to continue moving with spring attack. In the case above, unless you specifically stated that are taking a 5' step (not just moving 5'), you will get 3 AoO's against you before you get to finish your action. At least, that's how I thought it was supposed to work.

I don't see any point in having players declare use of spring attack. IMO, it's an automatic thing. Only if it becomes cloudy with SA'ers taking 5' steps and then later on saying they weren't really 5' steps, does it become a problem. Solution: have SA'ers declare whether they are moving 5', or actually taking a 5' step.

 

[dcollins]

You can almost get away without any prior declarations in 3rd Ed. D&D whatsoever -- with the sole exception of the ft. adjustment rule. Kind of funny, that.

Me, I'd require that players announce "spring attack" as the action commences. It's actually shorter to say "I spring attack that guy!" than it is to say "I move here and attack that guy!", so they might as well be precise about the action.

 

[Christian]

My DM probably wished that I had a card to hold up, just so he didn't hear 'I Spring Attack!' all the time. (Now that my deceased monk has been replaced by a halfling sorcerer, he has to hear 'I cast Magic Missile!' at least as often, which is probably not an improvement.)

 

[Legildur]

I don't understand all the confusion. The feat seems simply worded to me:

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, the character can move both before and after the attack, .... Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender the character attacks.

It does not say that you "must declare it on your turn or before use" or similar. Either the character meets the requirements to benefit from it or not.

And page 17 from the latest FAQ gives further clarification:

"When or how often you move during your turn is irrelevant, but you must make an attack to get the benefit."

Obviously you need to remind the DM (if you are the player) that the ogre doesn't get an AOO as you close - as long as you attack him!!

You could even start next to the ogre, attack, and then spring away and not grant the AOO (mind you, the ogre probably has a nice charge action up his sleeve to wreck your day).