Spring Attack while flying?

[Kaljamaha]

This came up in our last session. My wizard cast fly on our party fighter. The fighter wanted to use Spring Attack while flying, so as to stay out of reach of the bad guys, and still be able to hit them. Our DM ruled no.

I know there is a feat in MM called Flyby Attack. But, from what I remember, it isn't accessible to "normal" PCs. So which is the correct alternative?


a) No can do. The manoever just isn't possible unless the creature can fly naturally.

b) The fighter should pick up Flyby Attack to pull this off.

c) The fighter should be able to use Spring Attack regardless of movement type.


Thanks in advance.


K.

 

[kreynolds]

You can find Flyby Attack in MotW. It is available to anyone that can shapeshift into a flying form, or can fly magically or normally.

 

[Crothian]

Spring Attack won't do it, you need Fly by Attack. Just like Spring attack won't help while mounted , you need Ride by attack.

 

[EOL]

As far as I can tell one of the chief advantages of Spring Attack is not available under flyby attack, not provoking attacks of opportunity. So does flyby provoke AoO's? If it does what feats would a creature have to take in order to do a flyby without provoking AoO's?

 

[Crothian]

As far as I can tell one of the chief advantages of Spring Attack is not available under flyby attack, not provoking attacks of opportunity. So does flyby provoke AoO's? If it does what feats would a creature have to take in order to do a flyby without provoking AoO's?

Good question, hadn't noticed that. Maybe we need an Improved Flyby Attack? I assume that creatures do threatened equally in all directions. That never came up in a game of mine yet.

 

[Abraxas]

Why wouldn't Spring Attack work while flying?

According to the description in MoTW, the feat Flyby Attack cannot be used in conjunction with magical flight (such as a fly spell).

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

I'd allow spring attack only for creatures with perfect maneuverability, as they are essentially "walking on air."

 

[Henrix]

I must agree with Abraxas.
I cannot see why Spring Attack could not be used while flying.

That there is another feat, with different prerequisites, that allows you to do similar things, is hardly an argument.

There is nothing in the rules that say that the feat cannot be used.

 

[DM_Matt]

Why wouldn't Spring Attack work while flying?

According to the description in MoTW, the feat Flyby Attack cannot be used in conjunction with magical flight (such as a fly spell).

Exactly. Flyby attack related to the physics of winged flight. The Fly spell is more like ground movement in the air.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Colored highlights added by me.

From the SRD:

Spring Attack [General]
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4 or higher.
Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, the character can move both before and after the attack, provided that the character's total distance moved is not greater than the character's speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender the character attacks. The character can’t use this feat if the character is in heavy armor.

Also from the SRD:

Fly

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The spell’s subject can fly with a speed of 90 feet (60 feet if the creature wears medium or heavy armor). The subject can fly up at half speed and descend at double speed. The flying subject’s maneuverability rating is good. Using the fly spell requires as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load (see page 142), plus any armor it wears.

The Spring Attack feat is not dependant on the type of movement. It does not mention walking, running, burrowing, or any other type of movement. So long as one is making a melee attack and not a ranged attack the feat is accessible.

Fly allows movement that is as easy as walking, so attacking and casting spells can be done normally. This includes feats such as Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, and yes, Spring Attack.

There is also a Sage Advice somewhere where Skip rules that this is so as well, but feel free to disregard this, because I can't remember for the life of me where I read it to provide a reference.

Regarding Flyby Attack: This feat is only available to a certain subset of creatures (those who have the ability to fly). For those creatures who have access to it, it's an excellent feat because it doesn't have the same prereqs that Spring Attack does. Spring Attack's mechanics are different, in that it costs more to acquire it (it's at the end of a feat chain,) but it's useful in a wider variety of situations.