Staff of defense with two weapon fighting?

[HyannisRPGER]

A player in the group I'm DMing is running an eladrin wizard. He is taking the two weapon fighing feat so he can use a longsword in one hand and hold his staff in the other hand, using the wizard Staff of defense for +1 to AC.
He says that he should be able to get the bonus when using a sword, because the two weapon fighting feat allows you to hold two melee weapons in each hand.
I think that because a staff is a two handed weapon, you need both hands to wield it, so you don't get the bonus to AC if you are just holding it in one hand. The staff of defense says you have to wield it to get the +1.

Thoughts?

 

[Family]

 

[Thasmodious]

I can answer this one officially for you, as I asked a very similar question of Wizards CS just yesterday. I asked if a staff needed to be wielded in both hands to get the implement bonuses (in regard to powering wizard spells), as I hoped my dwarf wizard/(fighter) would be able to hold his staff in one hand and fight with his warhammer with the other. This is the answer:

You actually have to wield an implement to gain the bonuses of it. This is specified on the [page 157]. Therefore your Wizard/Fighter would not gain the bonus of his implement if he wasn't wielding it with both hands.

This convinced me an orb or wand was a better choice for my character, staff was my choice pretty much just to try and help shore up his weak AC a bit for melee.

 

[silentounce]

I can answer this one officially for you, as I asked a very similar question of Wizards CS just yesterday. I asked if a staff needed to be wielded in both hands to get the implement bonuses (in regard to powering wizard spells), as I hoped my dwarf wizard/(fighter) would be able to hold his staff in one hand and fight with his warhammer with the other. This is the answer:



This convinced me an orb or wand was a better choice for my character, staff was my choice pretty much just to try and help shore up his weak AC a bit for melee.

That's lame. Why not just ask your DM? As long as you don't abuse it I doubt he'd have a problem with it. The other implements don't suffer this handicap. Yeah, they can't be used as melee weapons either, but still. As long as you don't try to attack with your staff or gain any kind of two weapon bonus from it I think that CS answer is just funkilling. The only possible benefit you get from it is a d10 instead of a d8 and the ability to use feats/powers that focus on hammers. That's hardly gamebreaking.

Although, this begs for a new implement for dwarven wizards: the arcane warhammer.

 

[Kaffis]

Yeah, I think the staves and their effect options have sort of been balanced with 2-handed wielding in mind.

Wands and orbs aren't weapons, staves are. Why? Because you can't wield a real weapon while wielding a staff.

Now, I think Warlocks have some interesting options open to them with the dagger implements -- there, you could definitely get TWF and TWD, which might make a cool option for a multiclassed character.

 

[KevinF]

For my part, I allowed my eladrin wizard to use the staff implement in his off hand, to get the +1AC. Evidently this is a bending of the rules, but I'm OK with that.

I would not however allow him to take two weapon fighting feats, because that would definetly require him to use the staff as a combat weapon, as opposed to an arcane focus. As a combat weapon its a two hander.

I guess you could say that I "house ruled" that staffs as arcane implements only need to be held, not "weilded".

Once he gets to paragon tier he can take wizard of the spiral tower and use his sword as his implement.

 

[Lurker37]

The dagger isn't a general class of implement. There's a specific magical dagger that also acts as an implement for warlocks, in the same way a holy avenger does for palaadins.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Gandalf managed sword and staff two weapon fighting in the LotR movies in the siege of Minas Tirith, and it looked cool. Is that good enough to allow it?

In 4e, I'd ask myself whether it is (a) munchkinny and (b) setting up a precedent I'd regret down the road.

What do you think?

 

[Andor]

*shrug* I've seen and fought people fighting sword and using a staff as an off-hand parrying weapon in SCA rapier combat. As long as he's not trying to whack people on the head with the staff I see no problem.

Of course that's the realistic answer which may have nothing to do with how 4e does things...