Star Trek cast blames the bosses

S'mon · May 21, 2005

"But we have developed the perfect system of government - we don't _need_ elections! Elections imply the government might be fallible and need changing, but Star Fleet is already perfect."

"Uh, right."

wingsandsword · May 21, 2005

Vigilance said:
From what I have heard Ron Moore say, they ordered a second 13 episode season, not a full season.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30466

20 Episodes actually, straight from an official announcement on the Sci-Fi channel homepage.

Vigilance · May 21, 2005

S'mon said:
By the time of STTNG the Federation President seems to be either non-existent or a pure figurehead; the Star Fleet bureaucracy controls everything worth controlling. I guess a show about the fight (within Starfleet?) to restore representative democracy (ie elections!) to the impersonal bureaucracy of the Federation would be a lot of fun...

My impression was that the Federation Council ran things in a "one world one vote" type system. This would be like Journey to Babel every week, with strange aliens bickering and backstabbing, and we could have scenes with ships from across the UFP showing the results of the council's action (or inaction).

Then again, since we haven't ever gotten a close look at exactly how the UFP *is* run, we could get all sorts of things, which is what would make me want to see it.

Chuck

Vigilance · May 21, 2005

wingsandsword said:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30466

20 Episodes actually, straight from an official announcement on the Sci-Fi channel homepage.

Sweet!

As I said, I'm a fan. I wish the Sopranos would go 20 episodes a season too

That said, I stand by my statement that Enterprise was only a failure by the standards of Trek. As Scott Bakula said in a recent interview, Ent will be on 20 years from now when no one but trivia geeks will even be able to tell you the name of the show that replaced it, much less watch it.

Chuck

Ranger REG · May 21, 2005

Vigilance said:
That said, I stand by my statement that Enterprise was only a failure by the standards of Trek. As Scott Bakula said in a recent interview, Ent will be on 20 years from now when no one but trivia geeks will even be able to tell you the name of the show that replaced it, much less watch it.

Maybe it's a good thing I don't have cable. I haven't seen any syndicated Trek reruns on non-cable network stations in my area.

S'mon · May 22, 2005

Vigilance said:
Then again, since we haven't ever gotten a close look at exactly how the UFP *is* run, we could get all sorts of things, which is what would make me want to see it.

We know that daily life is policed by Starfleet, if you break the Eugenics laws you're put on trial before a Starfleet court...

To me it resembles a cross between the European Union and "1984". In the EU system, the Member States nominally have power through the Council of Ministers, and there is a European Parliament, but in actuality it's the European Commission, an impersonal technocratic bureaucracy a la Starfleet, which makes laws and acts as the executive administration, while the judiciary the European Court of Justice is essentially an arm of the Commission. Of course the EU is currently far less centralised & totalitarian than the Trek universe, but it is designed to evolve towards something resembling Trek's Federation.

Umbran · May 22, 2005

S'mon said:
We know that daily life is policed by Starfleet, if you break the Eugenics laws you're put on trial before a Starfleet court...

Somehow, I doubt that breaking the eugenics laws counts as "everyday life". Civilain, perhaps, but not everyday.

In Enterprise we see that humans aren't the only ones who have problems dealing with eugenics, so maybe those laws aren't only a human issue. If it's not just a human issue, then it isn't unreasonable that enforcement goes under whichever body enforces Federation law. If it is an interstellar issue, you need a body with interstellar reach to deal with it, no?

Now, we these days are understandably put on edge by the idea of the military taking on police functions as well. But part of the posit is that we, in 2005, are still savages by comparison to our Starfleet descendants.

wingsandsword · May 22, 2005

Umbran said:
Now, we these days are understandably put on edge by the idea of the military taking on police functions as well. But part of the posit is that we, in 2005, are still savages by comparison to our Starfleet descendants.

Well, Starfleet is more than just military, they are apparently exploration and scientific, and (Federal level) law enforcement as well. In the modern US the Coast Guard is an armed service that performs some law-enforcement related tasks, those at sea, which is a pretty good analogy for Starfleet's law enforcement tasks. Also, a military law enforcement body with Civil jurisdiction may be highly irregular to the English speaking modern world, but it exists in modern democracies, the Gendarmerie of France and former French colonies is a nationwide military police force.

Also note that the few times we see Starfleet acting in a Civilian law-enforcement capacity it is either in space, where nobody presumably they are the Federation body best equipped for the job, in extreme cases. Violations of the Genetic Engineering/Eugenics laws meant to prevent another Eugenics Wars or Augment Crisis are probably under Starfleet jurisdiction because that degree of Genetic enhancement is treated by the UFP about the way we treat "weapons of mass destruction" in the modern world. Dr. Julian Bashir is the only case of an Augment human in Star Trek lore who turned out well, without starting a world war, major crisis, severe biohazard (TNG "Unnatural Selection) or the process backfires and cripples the subject (DS9 "Statistical Probabilities" & "Chrysalis").

The one time we see Starfleet just take over and start policing everywhere was in DS9 "Paradise Lost", where a rogue Admiral tries to stage a coup, overthrow the President and rule the Federation by martial law. Note that this almost starts a civil war as direct day-to-day Starfleet policing was seen by the citizens of Earth as creating a police state, and Starfleet directly ruling was seen as a blatant power grab by many (those who supported the coup were given misinformation that it was to protect Earth and Starfleet from Changeling infiltrators).

Vigilance · May 22, 2005

There's also TOS movies, which give a strong impression there are a lot of decisions made by the Federation Council itself (ST III where the Klingon and Vulcan ambassadors are debating before the assembly about Kirk) and there are times with the President takes direct action on behalf of the entire Federation on his own authority (ST VI where the President decrees that he is not above the law and Kirk will stand trial).

There is also the Prime Directive, which still applies to member worlds, preventing the Federation from taking a hand in any "purely internal" issue.

So while I am sure there is a bureucracy that has to make a lot of decisions, it seems like there are many levels of control, from internal, to law enforcement, to parliamentary, to executive.

But at any rate, since there is a supreme executive with the authority to take action on behalf of the entire Federation (as there clearly is in ST VI) then a West Wing type show would work, which was Tacky's point.

Also, since what we DO know about how the UFP works would fill a teacup, you could do such a show without a lot of fact-checking to make sure you arent violating the canon.

Chuck

Ranger REG · May 22, 2005

Vigilance said:
Then again, since we haven't ever gotten a close look at exactly how the UFP *is* run, we could get all sorts of things, which is what would make me want to see it.

While this may be non-canon, a LUG game product titled, The Price of Freedom: The United Federation of Planets Sourcebook, might give you some understanding of its bureaucracy.

-- still a devoted LUGTrek fan.