Star Trek Discovery not getting any better I fear.

Ryujin

Adventurer
*Ahem* Side bar...X-files problem was the fact that no one including Chris Cater had any idea as to where he wanted to go...https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChrisCarterEffect
Yeah, I skipped the last few seasons of "X-Files" and didn't bother with the second of the new seasons. "Lost" was also one of the shows that suffered from this. By the third episode I already thought that I had figured out what was going on (proved to be right at the end of the series) and, with all of the crap going on circling, but not actually touching on that premise, I tired and stopped watching early in the second season.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Yeah, I skipped the last few seasons of "X-Files" and didn't bother with the second of the new seasons. "Lost" was also one of the shows that suffered from this. By the third episode I already thought that I had figured out what was going on (proved to be right at the end of the series) and, with all of the crap going on circling, but not actually touching on that premise, I tired and stopped watching early in the second season.
I gave up at the end of season 1 of lost. Star of season 3 for Prison Break.

Some shows are really only good for a season or 2.
 

Derren

Adventurer
Like what? I thought it hung together fairly well for a plot involving catching a time traveler using a Reverse Grandfather Paradox Gambit.
The identity of Burnham as Red Angel was confirmed again and again with all tests they had. And yet in the end it turned out to be someone else.
So if the biosignature matches, Burnham must be her own mother. Or a clone.

Not to mention why everyone is discussing the plan for capturing Burnham in front of her. Because that will totally work

It was in the scene where Spock comforts Burnham.
And it wasn't when Tully again bumbles into a meeting or when the whole "I don't love you anymore" plotline was on.
 

Mallus

Hero
So if the biosignature matches, Burnham must be her own mother. Or a clone.
Or *both* Burnham and her mother use the Red Angel time-suit at different points in their timelines. It was Burnham in it when the one scan was taken. It was her mom in the trap on Essof IV.

Not to mention why everyone is discussing the plan for capturing Burnham in front of her. Because that will totally work.
The trap is a paradox. As long as Burnham is willing to die, then it works. Willingness to commit suicide, ie the Reverse Grandfather Paradox Gambit is a pretty foolproof way of defeating your future self.

And it wasn't when Tully again bumbles into a meeting or when the whole "I don't love you anymore" plotline was on.
I admit Tilly's dialogue may be an acquired taste, but the Stamets & Culber stuff is great. Especially the "Why are you so angry? That's a really good question, Paul" exchange a few episodes back.
 

MarkB

Hero
The trap is a paradox. As long as Burnham is willing to die, then it works. Willingness to commit suicide, ie the Reverse Grandfather Paradox Gambit is a pretty foolproof way of defeating your future self.
But she and Spock only came up with that late in the episode. Meanwhile everyone was perfectly happy to let Burnham know exactly how they were going to capture her in the future.
 

Aeson

Adventurer
I admit Tilly's dialogue may be an acquired taste, but the Stamets & Culber stuff is great. Especially the "Why are you so angry? That's a really good question, Paul" exchange a few episodes back.
I really liked that exchange. Stamits seemed to have true pain when he asked the question. I wanted to say I felt this has been one of the better portrayals of a gay couple I've seen, but I think it's one of the better portrayals of a couple I've seen. Normally it's not my kind of thing, but I'm actually hoping to see them get back together.

As for Tilly, I love her. Her geeky awkwardness speaks to me. I stammer and ramble when I'm nervous. Talking to superiors tends to make me nervous. I get it. I think she needs to out grow it for her character to grow as she moves up in rank. She may find herself a Lt. Barclay type if she's not careful.
 

Mallus

Hero
Meanwhile everyone was perfectly happy to let Burnham know exactly how they were going to capture her in the future.
But they didn't know *exactly* how they were going to capture the Red Angel/Future Michael.

They resolve to do it (with Burnham present), start working on some tech to facilitate capture (without Burnham), then head to Essof IV to charge up their new plot device. There really isn't a plan for capturing her. They don't even know how to track future her. The plan doesn't solidify *until* Burnham and Spock decide to use the risk of her death as bait.

I mean, weaponizing the Grandfather Paradox against future-you is pretty clever. It's never going to make perfect sense when causality-violation is on the line.
 
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Derren

Adventurer
As the other thread is apparently for blind admiration only I post this here:

So they really go with "Our absolute certain 100% double and triple checked test we mentioned so often are absolute unfailable were wrong". Right....

And now we also have pseudoborg. Hopefully they won't go into the "Control created the Borg" direction, but the way the writing is it wouldn't surprise me.
Deleting the data is impossible? With that much at stake there are ways to delete the data 100% the physical way. Especially when they can freely move the data around.
Stopping a transmission is also possible easily by destroying or disconnecting hardware.
But where should the drama then come from?
 
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Hussar

Legend
As the other thread is apparently for blind admiration only I post this here:

So they really go with "Our absolute certain 100% double and triple checked test we mentioned so often are absolute unfailable were wrong". Right....

And now we also have pseudoborg. Hopefully they won't go into the "Control created the Borg" direction, but the way the writing is it wouldn't surprise me.
Deleting the data is impossible? With that much at stake there are ways to delete the data 100% the physical way. Especially when they can freely move the data around.
Stopping a transmission is also possible easily be destroying or disconnecting hardware.
But where should the drama then come from?
Well, to be fair, the only way those tests could be wrong is if the pilot was someone who had been confirmed as dead for the past 20 years, so, yeah, I'm not really going to take them to task for discounting the possibility. "Yes, our test is really freaking accurate. It's you Michael. Unless, of course, contrary to all the available information, somehow your dead mother is in that suit" isn't really going to come up, is it?

I do agree with the notion that "Control created the Borg" would be a terrible direction to go. Complete crap and I would be very disappointed. Granted, since none of the other doom and gloom predictions have come true (Michael is in the suit being one that comes to mind), I'm willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt for now.

And, yeah, it did occur to me, why not just pull the hard drive and jump and down on it? Ok, you cannot erase the data, sure, but, surely you can pull the memory where it's stored. Total plot hole, and no argument from me. And, again, I agree, why didn't they just shoot that transmitter? Georgiou turns it off, but, doesn't break it? Seems a bit stupid.

And the whole "Section 31 has stealth ships" is a load of ballocks. It's a really weak point.

See, boys and girls, it's not hard to criticize a show. There's a difference between criticism and hate watching. And, it's possible to like a show without liking everything.
 

Aeson

Adventurer
At first I was thinking Oooo Borg!! Then during the fight I started thinking meh Terminator.

Spock: I like science.
 

Derren

Adventurer
Well, to be fair, the only way those tests could be wrong is if the pilot was someone who had been confirmed as dead for the past 20 years, so, yeah, I'm not really going to take them to task for discounting the possibility. "Yes, our test is really freaking accurate. It's you Michael. Unless, of course, contrary to all the available information, somehow your dead mother is in that suit" isn't really going to come up, is it?
Or it could have been one of Burnhams descendants. It is from the future after all.
But gene testing from the future should be accurate enough to detect the difference between persons instead of only being accurate to the family line especially as in the episode before they never said that they only have scans of the mitochondrial DNA but instead talk about bioneural signature which would definitely not be the same between mothers and daughters. So why can't they tell the difference between 2 persons?
 
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MarkB

Hero
And, again, I agree, why didn't they just shoot that transmitter? Georgiou turns it off, but, doesn't break it? Seems a bit stupid.
That part, at least, isn't a plot hole. The relay was also a bomb, one powerful enough to breach the containment field and destroy the suit once the transmission was complete - probably a small antimatter charge. That's not something you want to shoot.
 

Derren

Adventurer
That part, at least, isn't a plot hole. The relay was also a bomb, one powerful enough to breach the containment field and destroy the suit once the transmission was complete - probably a small antimatter charge. That's not something you want to shoot.
She could have removed it when she was convinced that Leland was up to no good instead of leaving it so that it can be restarted by a single press.
But either way, the Discovery could have simply stopped the transmission by unplugging their communication array.
They could have also destroyed the data by transferring it into a shuttle, PADD, whatever and disintegrating that. Piece by piece if for some reason only a futuristic 20 year old suit has enough memory for it as the data somehow can be partitioned and copied (duplicated+deleted) just fine.
 

MarkB

Hero
She could have removed it when she was convinced that Leland was up to no good instead of leaving it so that it can be restarted by a single press.
But either way, the Discovery could have simply stopped the transmission by unplugging their communication array.
They could have also destroyed the data by transferring it into a shuttle, PADD, whatever and disintegrating that. Piece by piece if for some reason only a futuristic 20 year old suit has enough memory for it as the data somehow can be partitioned and copied (duplicated+deleted) just fine.
Or, if it really came to it, evacuated the Discovery and destroyed it.

I do have to wonder, if the Sphere data's self-preservation protocols were so strong, whether their plan really had any serious chance of working in the first place. It seems entirely likely that it would have happily allowed itself to be copied and propagated far and wide, but would then have disabled the protocols that would delete the original.
 

Derren

Adventurer
Or, if it really came to it, evacuated the Discovery and destroyed it.

I do have to wonder, if the Sphere data's self-preservation protocols were so strong, whether their plan really had any serious chance of working in the first place. It seems entirely likely that it would have happily allowed itself to be copied and propagated far and wide, but would then have disabled the protocols that would delete the original.
We will see if it comes up in the next episode if the Destiny still has the complete data or just the 45% or so that is left.
That reminds me, if the data was deleted on the Destiny because it was copied, wouldn't that mean that some data is already lost as when Georgiou disabled the transmitter device some data did land inside the suit?
 

Hussar

Legend
She could have removed it when she was convinced that Leland was up to no good instead of leaving it so that it can be restarted by a single press.
But either way, the Discovery could have simply stopped the transmission by unplugging their communication array.
They could have also destroyed the data by transferring it into a shuttle, PADD, whatever and disintegrating that. Piece by piece if for some reason only a futuristic 20 year old suit has enough memory for it as the data somehow can be partitioned and copied (duplicated+deleted) just fine.
Well, no, they couldn'T download it into a shuttle or PADD, because it's too big. They did make a point about the suit having massive memory (they used quantum. hehe. solves everything) and thus could actually contain the sphere data.

I think they're strongly hinting that the sphere data is somewhat intelligent. It certainly reacts when threatened, so, that's not totally out there.
 

Derren

Adventurer
Well, no, they couldn'T download it into a shuttle or PADD, because it's too big. They did make a point about the suit having massive memory (they used quantum. hehe. solves everything) and thus could actually contain the sphere data.

I think they're strongly hinting that the sphere data is somewhat intelligent. It certainly reacts when threatened, so, that's not totally out there.
And yet it was easily possible to partition the data as otherwise Control couldn't have escaped with part of it.
So you do not have to transfer the data in one big piece, you could have copied and destroyed it piece by piece. Besides, why would a 20 year old suit have less memory than a shuttlecraft (or the datacores of multiple shuttlecraft linked together)

Was it ever explained how Leland ended up strapped on the table anyway or did hologram Control somehow magically move him there? And why do their retina scanners have spikes anyway?
 
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