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Star Trek Discovery not getting any better I fear.

Hussar

Legend
Heh. Talk about different reactions.

I watched this and thought, damn, now there's a Star Trek episode. Hit all the notes just right. We care about the character that's going to die. Don't need to spend hours building up the character - get to the point and off we go.

I have to admit [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] - I had pretty much the completely opposite reaction that you did.

Although, I have to agree, why didn't they just beam her off the ship? That would seem like the easiest solution.

Otherwise though, yup, this was pretty excellent Trek.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I have to admit [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] - I had pretty much the completely opposite reaction that you did.
Me too. I loved it. I have come to realise that [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] is the anti-me.
 

Jester David

Villager
I really enjoyed this episode, and I think that it worked great.
Sure, it seems a bit cheap to only really tell us more about Airam when she's about to die, but: We already wanted to know about her since Season 1, Episode 3, when she first appeared, and the interest only grew. And in the mean-time, she has become a familiar sight. And I would disagree that they tell, and not show - we see her interactions with others, several scenes specifically from her perspective. We see a lot about her internal feelings just because we know which memories she archives and which she deletes.
It’s a little like the TNG episode, The Lower Decks. Where we get a bunch of new characters, are given an hour to care about them, and then tragedy.
Only instead of someone introduced just for this episode, they fleshed out an extra.

I watched this and thought, damn, now there's a Star Trek episode. Hit all the notes just right. We care about the character that's going to die. Don't need to spend hours building up the character - get to the point and off we go.
Which was the problem. I didn’t care. It was too obvious.

They might as well have had her say it last day before retirement.

[video=youtube_share;MOk4hQXbGDs]https://youtu.be/MOk4hQXbGDs[/video]

It’s like a twelve episode season. If they did any planning in advance they could have set that up sooo much better. Two or three minutes easy episode. A couple shots of her interacting with Tilly and the helmswoman.

I gave Discovery a chance. And it’s improved in a lot of ways. But, man, it still feels like the showrunner is half making it up as they went along.
I know they have yet another showrunner taking over next year. So it could continue to improve. But I’m really not sure I care enough about this show to keep watching.
 

Zardnaar

Explorer
It’s a little like the TNG episode, The Lower Decks. Where we get a bunch of new characters, are given an hour to care about them, and then tragedy.
Only instead of someone introduced just for this episode, they fleshed out an extra.


Which was the problem. I didn’t care. It was too obvious.

They might as well have had her say it last day before retirement.

[video=youtube_share;MOk4hQXbGDs]https://youtu.be/MOk4hQXbGDs[/video]

It’s like a twelve episode season. If they did any planning in advance they could have set that up sooo much better. Two or three minutes easy episode. A couple shots of her interacting with Tilly and the helmswoman.

I gave Discovery a chance. And it’s improved in a lot of ways. But, man, it still feels like the showrunner is half making it up as they went along.
I know they have yet another showrunner taking over next year. So it could continue to improve. But I’m really not sure I care enough about this show to keep watching.
Had that discussion around episode 2 or 3. My wife is "Life is to short for below average TV". We are watching DS9 and yeah characters you care about helps.
 
I have to say that in true Star Trek fashion many things in the episode were overly dramatic, but having said that this was bar-none the most enjoyable episode of Discovery so far. The characters were on point, Pike was freaking awesome and that admiral is very cool. I started this thread to express my disappointment but imho the show has slowly morphed into something worth watching. Worth my time.

MK
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
One thing that did jump out at me as I watched was, DAMN, this show is GORGEOUS. It really, really is.
Yeah. It strikes me every week. You can see every penny of the budget. The set design alone is incredible.
 

MarkB

Adventurer
I felt that they did enough to give Ariam an emotional connection, but I do agree with Jester David's points about them missing some obvious solutions. Not only did I think that the security officer could easily have put her helmet back on, I found it silly that any of them took their helmets off at all, given the hostile location.

I did like the Spock / Burnham scenes, where Spock essentially called Burnham out on her whole centre-of-the-universe martyr complex. Also his interactions with Stamets.
 

lowkey13

Exterminate all rational thought
Thoughts (current through most recent episode)-

1. The show is absolutely stunning in terms of visuals. Jokes about lens flares aside, this is the best looking Star Trek yet.

2. I really, really like the characters. I especially like Anson Mount as Pike and I even like the depiction of Spock this season. The only downside is that there are so many characters I enjoy, I feel like I don't get to spend enough time with many of them.

Okay- I don't like Ash Tyler very much; I really don't see his purpose this season, and his characterizations have been wobbly, at best. And while I love Michelle Yeoh as an actress, I'm just not digging her role either.

3. My biggest concern this season was that they would be digging too heavily into nostalgia (the end of last season, with the Enterprise ...). So, I'm still not a great big fan of that. And ... well, you just can't put Spock in everything! But some of the touches have been nice (Talos), and so far, this has been good season.

Overall: Season 2 > Season 1. Look forward to it on a weekly basis.
 

Janx

Adventurer
Yeah. It strikes me every week. You can see every penny of the budget. The set design alone is incredible.
Yep. One thing I noticed was the super-retracty helmets. Aside from they didn't have those in Wrath of Khan, I recall the super-lame half-rollback helments in Stargate SG-1 because they couldn't afford the FX that the movie had. Now, 20 years later, there it is on Discovery.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
Yep. One thing I noticed was the super-retracty helmets. Aside from they didn't have those in Wrath of Khan, I recall the super-lame half-rollback helments in Stargate SG-1 because they couldn't afford the FX that the movie had. Now, 20 years later, there it is on Discovery.
It seems that is now the new future-tech sci-fi standard, though. Marvel uses it a lot, too. Detachable helmets are obsolete.
 

Sadras

Explorer
[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] makes some pretty decent points, but personally I'm ok with montage-like input about characters.
I'm just a little tired of the focus on Burnham and her angst, frustration and anger, although this episode worked well with Spock countering her drama.

Loving Pike as well as his interchange with Saru about the mess hall fight and the crew's immediate support for him to go rogue.
 

Jester David

Villager
[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] makes some pretty decent points, but personally I'm ok with montage-like input about characters.
I'm just a little tired of the focus on Burnham and her angst, frustration and anger, although this episode worked well with Spock countering her drama.

Loving Pike as well as his interchange with Saru about the mess hall fight and the crew's immediate support for him to go rogue.
Burnham is pretty unlikable. I don't think the writers know what to do with her. It doesn't help that she's meant to be logical, cold, and a genius after having been raised by Vulcans but because of the needs of the story she keeps making incredibly stupid and emotional decisions again and again.
Another instance happened last episode where Burnham was risking everything to spare Ariam. Including ignoring a direct freakin' order. When being able to sacrifice a crewmember and order one to their death is a prerequisite of graduating from the Starfleet command program: if you try to save everyone all the time, you will end up killing everyone and losing the ship.
She's a terrible Starfleet officer.

The writers in general seem incapable of writing the Roddenberry/TNG "friendly professionals" dialogue, and continually have everyone yell and snap at each other. They're regularly acting in ways I couldn't get away with to coworkers or my boss, let alone a superior officer in a military setting. It was particularly obvious when Pike was snapping at the admiral in front of the entire bridge crew. (In TNG that would have been a one-on-one scene in the Ready Room preceded by Picard asking "permission to speak freely, Admiral?")
Which feels like the sole reason Spock is so emotional: because they couldn't make the character work as an emotionless Vulcan based on how they write dialogue and plan interactions with the crew.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
For the people who are still watching Discovery: Would you say that they are stepping back from their original "darker, edgier" mission statement prior to season 1 and going back to what might be termed more traditional Star Trek?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
For the people who are still watching Discovery: Would you say that they are stepping back from their original "darker, edgier" mission statement prior to season 1 and going back to what might be termed more traditional Star Trek?
I don't know what "traditional Star Trek" is? every show has bene very different. I love Discovery, and my favourite Star Trek is the TOS movies II-IV trilogy, if that helps. The main problem with the show is avoiding the hatewatchers.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
I don't know what "traditional Star Trek" is? every show has bene very different. I love Discovery, and my favourite Star Trek is the TOS movies II-IV trilogy, if that helps. The main problem with the show is avoiding the hatewatchers.
Presumably not something "dark and edgy" that they were pushing so hard prior to its release?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Presumably not something "dark and edgy" that they were pushing so hard prior to its release?
I don't really know what they were pushing hard prior to its release. DIdn't see much promotion. Sorry; not much help!
 

Hussar

Legend
Y'know, sometimes it's an advantage being so far away from all the hype machine. I saw virtually no promotional material for Star Trek. Heck, I see very little promotional material for nearly anything unless I go looking for it. Means I get to judge things based on my own views.

Nearly all the criticisms that [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] brings up really don't bother me. I don't judge shows based on other shows. I don't want a retread Star Trek that's the same as the previous Star Treks. I don't. The writers just can't win. Do something new and the haters come out of the woodwork claiming they're disrespecting tradition. Stay the path and they get hammered for being unoriginal and boring.

Why watch something you don't like? Good grief, there are THOUSANDS of shows on. You have to actually PAY to watch this. What kind of masochist watches something they don't like just to then go and bitch to all and sundry about how they don't like it?
 

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