Star Trek, Paramount+, and a Defense of the Greatest Star Trek Captain


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MarkB

Legend
The weird thing about going back and watching TNG is that the cast is so iconic that you forget how mediocre a lot of the actual episodes are.

But still, they're iconic for a reason, and Picard really does embody the Starfleet ideal, so he's top of the list for me.

But only just above Sisko, who embodies having to reconcile the Starfleet ideal with the rest of the galaxy.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I feel very similarly to you. Disco was interesting but seemed to misunderstand what makes Star Trek, Star Trek - for the first two seasons. Then they seemed to say, "Oh, you want HOPE and People Backing Each Other Up? YOU GOT IT!"

Now, while perhaps overly sentimental, it's Star Trek dialed at 11. I quite like it.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
The weird thing about going back and watching TNG is that the cast is so iconic that you forget how mediocre a lot of the actual episodes are.

But still, they're iconic for a reason, and Picard really does embody the Starfleet ideal, so he's top of the list for me.
I feel the same way about DS9. The first two seasons are not great (though I loved the pilot!)
But only just above Sisko, who embodies having to reconcile the Starfleet ideal with the rest of the galaxy.
The things I loved about both Picard and Sisko was their ability to be a friend and a leader. Almost like a batman and Bruce Wayne kind of thing. When Sisko snapped a subordinate into attention it was always like, "god damn!". Both of them were just fine actors. I really really want a cameo of Avery Brooks in a Picard season. I hope thats something they can make happen so badly. The scenes in the pilot of DS9 with the two of them were fantastic!
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I feel very similarly to you. Disco was interesting but seemed to misunderstand what makes Star Trek, Star Trek - for the first two seasons. Then they seemed to say, "Oh, you want HOPE and People Backing Each Other Up? YOU GOT IT!"

Now, while perhaps overly sentimental, it's Star Trek dialed at 11. I quite like it.

Yeah- don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DIS for the first two seasons, despite agreeing with what @payn wrote before- it was the Burhnam show far too often.

But whatever misgivings I had have been swept away.

So far, in what is quite a rarity (I mean .... Buffy would be an exception for the first three seasons), every single season of DIS has been better.

3 >> 2 > 1. I think 4 might be the best yet, but we'll have to see how it's resolved ....
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
But, anyway, Michelle Yeoh has me thinking of checking out the relevant episodes of DIS. Should I spend some of my limited TV watching time on it? Or just save up for the next few Marvel Series and watch the western channel and food channel in the meantime?

So I am not a Trek person (I've watched way less Trek that you, reading your comment), but for some reason I watched the first season and half of season two, so I'll say this;

I don't know if Discovery is a good "Star Trek show." I don't really know what that is, as someone who hasn't gotten that into Star Trek.

However, I really enjoyed Season 1. It starts off a little odd, but by the end it's pretty great, and the final arc of that season is some of the best "Space Opera Television" I've seen. Some great twists, though maybe I thought they were great because I haven't seen much Trek... I dunno. But just grading it on "good TV" I enjoyed it.

Second season though? Leans in more on Trek background that I don't know (or care), and gets a little too serialized for me. The show felt like it was drifting somewhere, but I dunno where, so I lost interest and stopped.

Also, the Michael Burnham/Ash Tyler thing is so incredibly weird, and honestly awful. Just hated it.

Best part in Discovery is the Harry Mudd centered episode, and I say that as someon who had no idea who he was.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Also, the Michael Burnham/Ash Tyler thing is so incredibly weird, and honestly awful. Just hated it.
It was weird, but I thought it was a great drama. It also dipped into long run ST history (which I know you likely dont have a reference for).
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
It was weird, but I thought it was a great drama. It also dipped into long run ST history (which I know you likely dont have a reference for).

That makes sense, if this is a common Trek thing I didn't know it... I didn't think it was good drama personally, as I didn't think they had good chemistry... I think it's actually hard for Burnham to have good chemistry with ANYONE considering how she was raised by Vulkans (and to the actresses credit, she plays that well). But anytime the Ash/Burnham stuff came on I wanted to fast forward, especially knowing the whole other element of Ash (which I am trying not to spoil).

I say this as someone who does appreciate romance when I think it is done well, I just didn't like this particular one.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
That makes sense, if this is a common Trek thing I didn't know it... I didn't think it was good drama personally, as I didn't think they had good chemistry... I think it's actually hard for Burnham to have good chemistry with ANYONE considering how she was raised by Vulkans (and to the actresses credit, she plays that well). But anytime the Ash/Burnham stuff came on I wanted to fast forward, especially knowing the whole other element of Ash (which I am trying not to spoil).

I say this as someone who does appreciate romance when I think it is done well, I just didn't like this particular one.
Yeah I can see a certain lack of emotion being seen as no chemistry. Though, the vulcan stuff explains it. Its cold, than hot, and then cold. It's a back and fourth song and dance with so much nuance (from Ash's perspective too). I thought it was done well. Could it have been better? Sure, but it wasn't bad to me which Trek is known for doing poorly.
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
Yeah I can see a certain lack of emotion being seen as no chemistry. Though, the vulcan stuff explains it. Its cold, than hot, and then cold. It's a back and fourth song and dance with so much nuance (from Ash's perspective too). I thought it was done well. Could it have been better? Sure, but it wasn't bad to me which Trek is known for doing poorly.

Ha, well if Trek is known for weak romance, then I suppose this ranks higher! At least Burnham didn't punch Ash like Kirk did above!
 

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