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Star Trek Star Trek, Paramount+, and a Defense of the Greatest Star Trek Captain


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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I have now watched the first episode of The Lower Decks. It is very good, even funnier than the Orville, and I actually understand the Trek references it makes (I'm sure there are more I missed).

I will watch the next two seasons of it now. :giggle:
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
The Orville is TNG if the crew went to a state university instead of an Ivy League school. A bit less accomplished, a bit more relatable, considerably more likely to have sustained injuries in a fraternity/sorority hazing incident.
Season 1 anyway. In season 2 the personal flaws of the crew that made season 1 so enjoyable just up and disappeared. I still enjoyed season 2 and want to see season 3, but it wasn't as good as the first season.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Opinion of Discovery has gone up. Season 1&2 weren't great but that's a recurring Trek problem except maybe DS9.

It's still not really an ensemble cast though Burnham show but her problem is she's not the Empress from the Dark reality.

Picard not sure about but I don't drool of Picard. Sisko probably my favorite he's a bit bombastic perhaps.
 

Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
I have to say, I am immensely enjoying the Prodigy. The sixth episode had awesome throwbacks and it was pretty much a tribute to some of the great deceased of Trek. I also loved the throwback to the very first episode of TOS in the Disco S4E6. I am fully expecting at least a mention of Gary Mitchell at some point.

Also. As long as we’re making important rankings, how about ranking the Starfleet Doctors. I have a controversial opinion about this:

1. Pulaski
2. McCoy
3. Phlox
4. The Doctor
5. Culber
6. Bashir
7. Crusher
 





Janx

Hero
You forgot Captain Jellico of the USS Enterprise D who finally ordered a Starfleet Officer to wear her damn uniform while on duty.

I think your essay focuses on the audience/TV nature, rather than the actual quality of the captains as shown in the video record.

Janeway sucks. We gotta blow the Array and protect the Ocampa. Next day: well let's leave the Ocampa and fly home the hard way. She murdered Tuvix.

Archer was too wishy-washy for a man who is set to define humanity's role in space with every order.

I favor Picard for his speeches. Not the one where he mansplained to Dr. Crusher in the turbolift. The times where he rightfully argued for the rights of Data. Measure of a man nailed.

Sisko was solid as a captain and a father. Period. And his sermons were righteous and power.

Kirk. Never paid the consequences for his actions until Khan returned.
 

payn

Legend
I have to say, I am immensely enjoying the Prodigy. The sixth episode had awesome throwbacks and it was pretty much a tribute to some of the great deceased of Trek. I also loved the throwback to the very first episode of TOS in the Disco S4E6. I am fully expecting at least a mention of Gary Mitchell at some point.

Also. As long as we’re making important rankings, how about ranking the Starfleet Doctors. I have a controversial opinion about this:

1. Pulaski
2. McCoy
3. Phlox
4. The Doctor
5. Culber
6. Bashir
7. Crusher
Wow, Bashir at #6... I will say the episode where Picardo guest starred on DS9 as a doctor designing the holographic doctor interface based on Julian was a great and clever cross over.
 

GreyLord

Legend
Btw, as someone who hasn't watched much Star Trek, would Picard be worth a watch? Or is it very much "You need to love Star Trek to like this show"?

Unpopular opinion...

OF all the new Star Trek Shows, I actually like Picard the Best.

It's a different take on the Federation. Most of the people participating in the main cast are NOT part of Star Fleet (even if they once were, they no longer are). It's a different picture of life in the Federation. I think this rubs people the wrong way in many ways.

I really liked it though.
 

Lower Decks shows us that what makes Star Trek is not about a bridge crew, or about weirdness in space, and it's not about tone.

It's about an attitude towards the unknown, a trust in science and humanity, and it presents a model of work friendships that is unattainable in real life.
This is a great take.

I will suggest that "work friendships" like this are potentially attainable in naval service and similar circumstances. Obviously Trek is idealized, but in situations where you are serving alongside a person for years at a time, living and recreating as well as working together, it's no doubt a heck of a bond. In a somewhat parallel case, I've described Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin novels as perhaps the greatest story of a friendship in literary history.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I have to say, I am immensely enjoying the Prodigy. The sixth episode had awesome throwbacks and it was pretty much a tribute to some of the great deceased of Trek. I also loved the throwback to the very first episode of TOS in the Disco S4E6. I am fully expecting at least a mention of Gary Mitchell at some point.

Also. As long as we’re making important rankings, how about ranking the Starfleet Doctors. I have a controversial opinion about this:

1. Pulaski
2. McCoy
3. Phlox
4. The Doctor
5. Culber
6. Bashir
7. Crusher

You have opened a can of worms sir, a CAN OF GAGH!

See, this is the thing- the ranking of Doctors in Star Trek might the one thing that it both least done, and MOST NECESSARY, in all the realms of geek-dom. From the very beginning of the show (TOS) to the most recent iterations, other things have changed in importance (Security, Science Officer, do you have a "Number One"), but one things has remained constant-

There is a Captain. And there is a Doctor (medical officer if you're feelin' snooty).

So here is the proper ranking ranking of doctors, first chronologically with my notes, then ranked by awesomdoctoriness, using the Captain criteria I put in the first post.

TOS. Leonard McCoy. Bones. The first. The third wheel to the Kirk/Spock pairing (hey, some people like to watch). He set the template for all to follow- just think of the boldness of this choice- for all the fun we have at the expense of TOS ("We come in peace ... shoot to kill") we have to remember that unlike later shows, we don't remember the security officer. No- the show was defined by the Captain, the Science Officer, and the Medical Officer. That, right there, is why Star Trek > Star Wars. Science FTW (drop mic). And Bones himself played an exemplary role within the series, both acting as a curmudgeon and skeptic, as well as the charming luddite who loved saving people and the power of medicine on a friggin' space ship.

TNG. Beverly Crusher. Bev. So here's the thing- I get why you want to list Pulaski. Pulaski was so ... much ... better ... than Bev. She was played by a better actress (sorry, but you know it in your heart to be true). And she was a better character than Bev. And she was a better representation of what a doctor should be than Bev. But just because Pulaski was wronged, doesn't mean it's right to rank her ... at all, let alone number one. She appeared part-time in one season. So we can only use Bev, and she, well, she was there. Quick- think about all the beloved people on the Enterprise in TNG. Keep thinking. Keep thinking. And ... keep thinking. Have you reached Bev yet? I didn't think so.

DS9. Julian Bashir. a/k/a Our Man Bashir. One of the tougher ones to rank, because on the one hand he's the first doctor to have an "arc." He's also notable because he was ... well, he was kind of a jerk, and he was also interesting. He was well-played, and a good doctor. All of this would seem to scream top of the list! Unfortunately, he was also one of the least essential cast members of DS9, which had a veritable murderers row. Roughly ranked, it was ... Morn > Odd > Sisco > Quark > Dax (the real one) > Kira ... and then he's somewhere along with Miles and Worf and Dukat. Fine company, but not essential. I mean, he had more of an impact than the Dabo Girls, but ...

VOY. The Doctor. Here, we have the opposite issue from Our Man Bashir. We have a character that is compelling, that is a jerk (especially at the beginning), and that has an arc. But unlike Bashir, The Doctor (who? heh) is arguably the most compelling character to come out of Voyager by far. Okay, he did have his thunder stolen a little when they added Seven so you now had two characters in the Spock/Data/Odo "What is this humanity thing?" role, but still. This was the first time that we had a character, as opposed to a plot line, really explore the nature of AI. And Picardo absolutely nailed this. When I think back on Voyager, my three thoughts in order are- 1. Paris turned into a fish-thing. That was funny. 2. The Doctor was awesome. 3. Where did they get all their photon torpedoes, and why did they abandon the whole, "We have no supplies" storyline that made them unique?

ENT. Phlox. Look, Phlox might be the toughest one to rank. Let's start with a truism- Enterprise only exists to make Voyager fans feel good about themselves, much like we have Mississippi in the United States so that New Jersey doesn't take the brunt of all the jokes. Yeah, yeah, after two miserable seasons, it had one decent season, and one season of "Hey, look, we're going to actually explore Star Trek lore a little" followed by the worst series finale of any Star Trek show ever. And the cast! The cast was:
A. Three white guys. One had a dog, which I think made him captain. One had an accent, which made him the Engineer. And one wasn't American, which made him... I dunno, do something with weapon maybe?
B. T'Pol, whose defining characteristic seemed to be a Vulcan need to continually take showers.
C. Two other bridge people who got almost no time. One did languages. One flew the ship.
That's it. Oh, and then there was Phlox! Phlox was actually ... interesting. Phlox was fascinated by science (in fact, Phlox was the voice of science on this show). With a minimal amount of screen time, Phlox was, by far, the best character. If I could re-visit history and re-do Enterprise, I'd get rid of the theme song, the entire premise for the first two years (something something temporal war stupid), and the entire cast except for Phlox because Phlox was awesome, and T'Pol as an apology for how her character was written.

So, the rankings!
1. The Doctor.
2. Bones.
3. Phlox.
4. Our Man Bashir. Yeah, this pains me too. I actually really love me some Bashir- but this is a murderer's row of a category.
5. That time when the dentist says, "So, do you want all four wisdom teeth removed at once?"
20. Getting all your wisdom teeth removed at once.
37. Bev.
 

MarkB

Legend
You have opened a can of worms sir, a CAN OF GAGH!

See, this is the thing- the ranking of Doctors in Star Trek might the one thing that it both least done, and MOST NECESSARY, in all the realms of geek-dom. From the very beginning of the show (TOS) to the most recent iterations, other things have changed in importance (Security, Science Officer, do you have a "Number One"), but one things has remained constant-

There is a Captain. And there is a Doctor (medical officer if you're feelin' snooty).

So here is the proper ranking ranking of doctors, first chronologically with my notes, then ranked by awesomdoctoriness, using the Captain criteria I put in the first post.

TOS. Leonard McCoy. Bones. The first. The third wheel to the Kirk/Spock pairing (hey, some people like to watch). He set the template for all to follow- just think of the boldness of this choice- for all the fun we have at the expense of TOS ("We come in peace ... shoot to kill") we have to remember that unlike later shows, we don't remember the security officer. No- the show was defined by the Captain, the Science Officer, and the Medical Officer. That, right there, is why Star Trek > Star Wars. Science FTW (drop mic). And Bones himself played an exemplary role within the series, both acting as a curmudgeon and skeptic, as well as the charming luddite who loved saving people and the power of medicine on a friggin' space ship.

TNG. Beverly Crusher. Bev. So here's the thing- I get why you want to list Pulaski. Pulaski was so ... much ... better ... than Bev. She was played by a better actress (sorry, but you know it in your heart to be true). And she was a better character than Bev. And she was a better representation of what a doctor should be than Bev. But just because Pulaski was wronged, doesn't mean it's right to rank her ... at all, let alone number one. She appeared part-time in one season. So we can only use Bev, and she, well, she was there. Quick- think about all the beloved people on the Enterprise in TNG. Keep thinking. Keep thinking. And ... keep thinking. Have you reached Bev yet? I didn't think so.

DS9. Julian Bashir. a/k/a Our Man Bashir. One of the tougher ones to rank, because on the one hand he's the first doctor to have an "arc." He's also notable because he was ... well, he was kind of a jerk, and he was also interesting. He was well-played, and a good doctor. All of this would seem to scream top of the list! Unfortunately, he was also one of the least essential cast members of DS9, which had a veritable murderers row. Roughly ranked, it was ... Morn > Odd > Sisco > Quark > Dax (the real one) > Kira ... and then he's somewhere along with Miles and Worf and Dukat. Fine company, but not essential. I mean, he had more of an impact than the Dabo Girls, but ...

VOY. The Doctor. Here, we have the opposite issue from Our Man Bashir. We have a character that is compelling, that is a jerk (especially at the beginning), and that has an arc. But unlike Bashir, The Doctor (who? heh) is arguably the most compelling character to come out of Voyager by far. Okay, he did have his thunder stolen a little when they added Seven so you now had two characters in the Spock/Data/Odo "What is this humanity thing?" role, but still. This was the first time that we had a character, as opposed to a plot line, really explore the nature of AI. And Picardo absolutely nailed this. When I think back on Voyager, my three thoughts in order are- 1. Paris turned into a fish-thing. That was funny. 2. The Doctor was awesome. 3. Where did they get all their photon torpedoes, and why did they abandon the whole, "We have no supplies" storyline that made them unique?

ENT. Phlox. Look, Phlox might be the toughest one to rank. Let's start with a truism- Enterprise only exists to make Voyager fans feel good about themselves, much like we have Mississippi in the United States so that New Jersey doesn't take the brunt of all the jokes. Yeah, yeah, after two miserable seasons, it had one decent season, and one season of "Hey, look, we're going to actually explore Star Trek lore a little" followed by the worst series finale of any Star Trek show ever. And the cast! The cast was:
A. Three white guys. One had a dog, which I think made him captain. One had an accent, which made him the Engineer. And one wasn't American, which made him... I dunno, do something with weapon maybe?
B. T'Pol, whose defining characteristic seemed to be a Vulcan need to continually take showers.
C. Two other bridge people who got almost no time. One did languages. One flew the ship.
That's it. Oh, and then there was Phlox! Phlox was actually ... interesting. Phlox was fascinated by science (in fact, Phlox was the voice of science on this show). With a minimal amount of screen time, Phlox was, by far, the best character. If I could re-visit history and re-do Enterprise, I'd get rid of the theme song, the entire premise for the first two years (something something temporal war stupid), and the entire cast except for Phlox because Phlox was awesome, and T'Pol as an apology for how her character was written.

So, the rankings!
1. The Doctor.
2. Bones.
3. Phlox.
4. Our Man Bashir. Yeah, this pains me too. I actually really love me some Bashir- but this is a murderer's row of a category.
5. That time when the dentist says, "So, do you want all four wisdom teeth removed at once?"
20. Getting all your wisdom teeth removed at once.
37. Bev.
How much further down would I need to scroll to find Dr Pulaski?
 

Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
You have opened a can of worms sir, a CAN OF GAGH!

See, this is the thing- the ranking of Doctors in Star Trek might the one thing that it both least done, and MOST NECESSARY, in all the realms of geek-dom. From the very beginning of the show (TOS) to the most recent iterations, other things have changed in importance (Security, Science Officer, do you have a "Number One"), but one things has remained constant-

There is a Captain. And there is a Doctor (medical officer if you're feelin' snooty).

So here is the proper ranking ranking of doctors, first chronologically with my notes, then ranked by awesomdoctoriness, using the Captain criteria I put in the first post.

TOS. Leonard McCoy. Bones. The first. The third wheel to the Kirk/Spock pairing (hey, some people like to watch). He set the template for all to follow- just think of the boldness of this choice- for all the fun we have at the expense of TOS ("We come in peace ... shoot to kill") we have to remember that unlike later shows, we don't remember the security officer. No- the show was defined by the Captain, the Science Officer, and the Medical Officer. That, right there, is why Star Trek > Star Wars. Science FTW (drop mic). And Bones himself played an exemplary role within the series, both acting as a curmudgeon and skeptic, as well as the charming luddite who loved saving people and the power of medicine on a friggin' space ship.

TNG. Beverly Crusher. Bev. So here's the thing- I get why you want to list Pulaski. Pulaski was so ... much ... better ... than Bev. She was played by a better actress (sorry, but you know it in your heart to be true). And she was a better character than Bev. And she was a better representation of what a doctor should be than Bev. But just because Pulaski was wronged, doesn't mean it's right to rank her ... at all, let alone number one. She appeared part-time in one season. So we can only use Bev, and she, well, she was there. Quick- think about all the beloved people on the Enterprise in TNG. Keep thinking. Keep thinking. And ... keep thinking. Have you reached Bev yet? I didn't think so.

DS9. Julian Bashir. a/k/a Our Man Bashir. One of the tougher ones to rank, because on the one hand he's the first doctor to have an "arc." He's also notable because he was ... well, he was kind of a jerk, and he was also interesting. He was well-played, and a good doctor. All of this would seem to scream top of the list! Unfortunately, he was also one of the least essential cast members of DS9, which had a veritable murderers row. Roughly ranked, it was ... Morn > Odd > Sisco > Quark > Dax (the real one) > Kira ... and then he's somewhere along with Miles and Worf and Dukat. Fine company, but not essential. I mean, he had more of an impact than the Dabo Girls, but ...

VOY. The Doctor. Here, we have the opposite issue from Our Man Bashir. We have a character that is compelling, that is a jerk (especially at the beginning), and that has an arc. But unlike Bashir, The Doctor (who? heh) is arguably the most compelling character to come out of Voyager by far. Okay, he did have his thunder stolen a little when they added Seven so you now had two characters in the Spock/Data/Odo "What is this humanity thing?" role, but still. This was the first time that we had a character, as opposed to a plot line, really explore the nature of AI. And Picardo absolutely nailed this. When I think back on Voyager, my three thoughts in order are- 1. Paris turned into a fish-thing. That was funny. 2. The Doctor was awesome. 3. Where did they get all their photon torpedoes, and why did they abandon the whole, "We have no supplies" storyline that made them unique?

ENT. Phlox. Look, Phlox might be the toughest one to rank. Let's start with a truism- Enterprise only exists to make Voyager fans feel good about themselves, much like we have Mississippi in the United States so that New Jersey doesn't take the brunt of all the jokes. Yeah, yeah, after two miserable seasons, it had one decent season, and one season of "Hey, look, we're going to actually explore Star Trek lore a little" followed by the worst series finale of any Star Trek show ever. And the cast! The cast was:
A. Three white guys. One had a dog, which I think made him captain. One had an accent, which made him the Engineer. And one wasn't American, which made him... I dunno, do something with weapon maybe?
B. T'Pol, whose defining characteristic seemed to be a Vulcan need to continually take showers.
C. Two other bridge people who got almost no time. One did languages. One flew the ship.
That's it. Oh, and then there was Phlox! Phlox was actually ... interesting. Phlox was fascinated by science (in fact, Phlox was the voice of science on this show). With a minimal amount of screen time, Phlox was, by far, the best character. If I could re-visit history and re-do Enterprise, I'd get rid of the theme song, the entire premise for the first two years (something something temporal war stupid), and the entire cast except for Phlox because Phlox was awesome, and T'Pol as an apology for how her character was written.

So, the rankings!
1. The Doctor.
2. Bones.
3. Phlox.
4. Our Man Bashir. Yeah, this pains me too. I actually really love me some Bashir- but this is a murderer's row of a category.
5. That time when the dentist says, "So, do you want all four wisdom teeth removed at once?"
20. Getting all your wisdom teeth removed at once.
37. Bev.
I really appreciate and approve of your analysis. Except for Pulaski. If one is to omit Pulaski, it must be because she is above and beyond all ranking.

At least we are truly in agreement about Crusher.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I have to say, I am immensely enjoying the Prodigy. The sixth episode had awesome throwbacks and it was pretty much a tribute to some of the great deceased of Trek. I also loved the throwback to the very first episode of TOS in the Disco S4E6. I am fully expecting at least a mention of Gary Mitchell at some point.

Also. As long as we’re making important rankings, how about ranking the Starfleet Doctors. I have a controversial opinion about this:

1. Pulaski
2. McCoy
3. Phlox
4. The Doctor
5. Culber
6. Bashir
7. Crusher
For me the doctors go.

1. Mc "I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer" Coy
2. The Doctor
3. Bashir
4. Flux
5. Crushlaskiber(didn't care for any of them)
 

payn

Legend
DS9. Julian Bashir. a/k/a Our Man Bashir. One of the tougher ones to rank, because on the one hand he's the first doctor to have an "arc." He's also notable because he was ... well, he was kind of a jerk, and he was also interesting. He was well-played, and a good doctor. All of this would seem to scream top of the list! Unfortunately, he was also one of the least essential cast members of DS9, which had a veritable murderers row. Roughly ranked, it was ... Morn > Odd > Sisco > Quark > Dax (the real one) > Kira ... and then he's somewhere along with Miles and Worf and Dukat. Fine company, but not essential. I mean, he had more of an impact than the Dabo Girls, but ...
Gotta call foul on this one. Dax was cool (yes that one) but Bashir was far more essential. He took on section 31 and won (which nobody is supposed to know about but EVERYONE knows about in Disco which was annoying) He saved Odo who then helped end the war with the dominion and save the founders. Dax doesn't do anything but give advice and suggest who is best for the job. A cool character (first girl/girl kiss on network TV) but not essential, at least not above most DS9 characters.
So, the rankings!
1. The Doctor.
2. Bones.
3. Phlox.
4. Our Man Bashir. Yeah, this pains me too. I actually really love me some Bashir- but this is a murderer's row of a category.
5. That time when the dentist says, "So, do you want all four wisdom teeth removed at once?"
20. Getting all your wisdom teeth removed at once.
37. Bev.
Id swap Phlox and our man Bashir, but can mostly agree with this list.
 



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